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Bachelor's Degree + Experience = Imbalanced?
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naruru-chan



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:08 pm    Post subject: Bachelor's Degree + Experience = Imbalanced? Reply with quote

Hello,

I'm Naruru and this is my first post Smile Nice to meet you!

Recently I have applied to eikaiwa jobs that werer posted in O-Hayo Sensei newsletter. A lot of them that I have applied to have said it is preferred to have a TESOL certificate, while a university degree and experience in teaching is much preferred. Suddenly, I don't get a reply from them.

Even though I have a degree in Fine Arts, does this "seriously" affect my resume? I have had experience working with young children during my college years and I'm currently a tutor at my old uni. I also have international experience Shocked
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Mr_Monkey



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically, your resume is exactly the same as thousands of other applicants.

A university degree is not preferred - it's a requisite for sponsoring your visa.

Your CV may need tweaked to emphasise your experience with young children, but many employers consider experience outside Japan to be irrelevant.

I'm not sure a TESOL cert will help, although a young learners cert like the CELTYL indicates a basic degree of competence that might make your CV stand out.

Personally, if I were hiring, I'd insist on certs as a minimum criterion for consideration, but I'm not, and I'm not a Japanese eikaiwa owner/manager, so I don't think that's worth much.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't looked closely at what employers are advertising recently, but bear in mind that with the bankruptcies of 2 large eikaiwa chains (GEOS, NOVA), there are far more people out there looking for work these days.

Perhaps employers want a TESOL-related certification more than before. That's understandable in order to help weed out applicants, because most newcomers have degrees unrelated to TEFL. Hard to say what they are feeling, but that's a logical concept. You never know what employers feel, though. Add to that some experience, and you can see even more what they might want from applicants.

Your resume otherwise is pretty generic. Do your best to write a good cover letter for each application. Customize.

What is "international experience"?

Quote:
Suddenly, I don't get a reply from them.
What do you mean "suddenly"?
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Bread



Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:

Quote:
Suddenly, I don't get a reply from them.
What do you mean "suddenly"?


They REALLY QUICKLY don't reply.
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Mr_Monkey



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL

They do it without warning too.
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seklarwia



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Bread and Monkey

You two are mean Laughing Laughing Laughing


naruru-chan wrote:
A lot of them that I have applied to have said it is preferred to have a TESOL certificate, while a university degree and experience in teaching is much preferred. Suddenly, I don't get a reply from them.

It is quite normal for schools to not reply to initial applications if they are no longer hiring or are simply not interested. It can seem a little cruel, but that is just how it is. Some schools/agencies even say on their sites that they will not respond unless they want further info or to offer you an interview.

- How many places have you applied to?
If it's only a few, then just keep trying; with the flooded market, it isn't as easy to get a job as it was in the past.
But if you have applied to many positions and haven't even received a hint of interest, then you should double check that you are giving the correct contact info, make sure that your email address isn't something really inappropriate (i.e. pornstar@, etc) or that the name that appears in their inbox isn't something shocking. Check your your spam folder.
And if all that is good, perhaps you need to get someone to look over your CV; preferably someone who is experienced in dealing with CVs and knows a little about ESL job applications in Japan.
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't mention having a TESOL certificate. Does that mean that you don't? Try to look at it from an employer's point of view. There are a tonne of people in Japan right now with degrees, TESOL certificates (most of which are really just quick newbie deals that aren't really worth all that much, but that's another thread) and speak intermediate Japanese. A TESOL certificate is 'preferred' really means that that's basically what they're looking for.

Experience outside of Japan, means very, very little inside of Japan a lot of the time.

Whether your degree is in fine arts makes zero difference to most employers. It may even count for you, if you can show them how you could use it in class. Some employers have a slight preference for English or linguistics.
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OneJoelFifty



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bread wrote:
Glenski wrote:

Quote:
Suddenly, I don't get a reply from them.
What do you mean "suddenly"?


They REALLY QUICKLY don't reply.


You made me lol irl.
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naruru-chan



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woops Embarassed

Last edited by naruru-chan on Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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naruru-chan



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr_Monkey wrote:
Basically, your resume is exactly the same as thousands of other applicants.

A university degree is not preferred - it's a requisite for sponsoring your visa.

Your CV may need tweaked to emphasise your experience with young children, but many employers consider experience outside Japan to be irrelevant.

I'm not sure a TESOL cert will help, although a young learners cert like the CELTYL indicates a basic degree of competence that might make your CV stand out.

Personally, if I were hiring, I'd insist on certs as a minimum criterion for consideration, but I'm not, and I'm not a Japanese eikaiwa owner/manager, so I don't think that's worth much.


That's what I thought about it too, having my CV/resume to be a bit blunt without EFL/ESL teaching certificate, but very few does not require this certificate (say the big schools such as ECC, AEON, JET, etc.). I'm not sure about CELTYL because it is taken in England and I'm in the US Confused TESOL is usually considered a preferable certificate for teaching in Japan as I have read countless of websites about it. I'm still not sure but hopefully if I get hired then I might understand the criteria a bit more. It seems online information is not enough as far as I have researched it.

Thank you very much for the reply, Mr_Monkey! Very Happy

Glenski wrote:
What is "international experience"?


International experience is if you have been abroad, outside of your home country, such as living in a different country, vacationing, family visit, work-related tasks, etc. I've seen this kind of section in a resume for an ESL/EFL teaching position. I'm not entirely sure why you asked this question but some eikaiwa & "big belly" schools do ask you if you have had that experience before. Also, thanks for the advice Very Happy

Glenski wrote:
What do you mean "suddenly"?


Sorry if I used the wrong term (It looks like I was writing a fiction novel or just exaggerated my result Embarassed ). I don't get a reply from them within a week or two, the maximum days after applying for a job. So...yeah, I apologize for this mistake Embarassed

@Bread and Mr_Monkey
<sarcasm> I wonder if they don't know how to use an e-mail </sarcasm> Laughing (that made me laugh, thanks you two!)

seklarwia wrote:
How many places have you applied to?


As of today, I have applied to 20 eikaiwas, 5-6 replies Crying or Very sad One said they're not hiring anymore (which is quite weird since they still have their ad up at O-Hayo Sensei and on their webpage), one said I'd find a suitable eikaiwa that fits my talents (??). Just yesterday I received two e-mails from two eikaiwas and have phone interview sessions this coming week Very Happy Also, thank you for a great advice! Smile

GambateBingBangBOOM wrote:
You don't mention having a TESOL certificate. Does that mean that you don't?


I didn't plan on getting a TESOL certificate until I found this year how one certificate can make a slight difference in my resume and how well I can perform in a classroom with just a little more experience in EFL teaching area.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naruru-chan wrote:
Glenski wrote:
What is "international experience"?


International experience is if you have been abroad, outside of your home country, such as living in a different country, vacationing, family visit, work-related tasks, etc. I've seen this kind of section in a resume for an ESL/EFL teaching position. I'm not entirely sure why you asked this question
Because you wrote this:
"I also have international experience"
...and in order to evaluate your chances a bit, I thought it would be helpful to know exactly what yours was. I'm not a newcomer here that needs a definitions spelled out, as you gave.

Quote:
I don't get a reply from them within a week or two, the maximum days after applying for a job.
I'm sorry, but again the way you write is a bit off. "maximum days"? Are you saying that you are so impatient that you can't wait more than a week or 2 before giving up on an application? It sounds that way, but I'm just checking.

Quote:
seklarwia wrote:
How many places have you applied to?


As of today, I have applied to 20 eikaiwas, 5-6 replies Crying or Very sad
That's a response rate of >25% which is pretty darned good in any industry!

How long have you been looking? Twenty applications is pretty sparse. You should be putting out that many a week.

Quote:
One said they're not hiring anymore (which is quite weird since they still have their ad up at O-Hayo Sensei and on their webpage), one said I'd find a suitable eikaiwa that fits my talents (??).
The one at OhayoSensei may have paid for a certain length of time to have the ad up. The other one is being professionally courteous. Doesn't sound like you've had much job hunting experience.

Quote:
I didn't plan on getting a TESOL certificate until I found this year how one certificate can make a slight difference in my resume and how well I can perform in a classroom with just a little more experience in EFL teaching area.
With the market as full of teachers as it is, if you are considering making TEFL a career, it should be a no-brainer to decide. Get the certificate.
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Apsara



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naruru-chan wrote:

Glenski wrote:
What is "international experience"?


International experience is if you have been abroad, outside of your home country, such as living in a different country, vacationing, family visit, work-related tasks, etc. I've seen this kind of section in a resume for an ESL/EFL teaching position. I'm not entirely sure why you asked this question but some eikaiwa & "big belly" schools do ask you if you have had that experience before. Also, thanks for the advice Very Happy


I'm sure you realise this, but there is an enormous difference between going to China or Spain for a couple of weeks for a holiday and real time spent living in a country, so it is important to be more specific. While I hear that it is quite common for people from the US never to have travelled outside their own country, where I come from (New Zealand) this would be quite unusual, and 2 weeks in Thailand or Australia for example wouldn't really qualify as "international experience".

Since all you said is that you have "international experience", we don't know if that means you have spent a week in the Bahamas or whether you lived in Finland for a year on an exchange. Did your international experience involve teaching? How long was it?
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naruru-chan



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apsara wrote:

Did your international experience involve teaching? How long was it?


It did not involve teaching. It involved living abroad for 9 years, + 3 vacation weeks outside of N. America, + 1 vacation week in Canada Smile
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Apsara



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the living abroad for 9 years qualifies as considerable international experience, but the vacation weeks don't really. I've travelled to more than 30 countries so have untold "vacation weeks" outside my country, but on a CV/application at least I would probably only mention the time I've spent living in Japan and Spain if I wanted to mention "international experience".
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm afraid that 9 years of just living in other countries will only be seen as a good point in terms of your potential to minimize culture shock. Might depends on just where you were, too.

Otherwise, as far as improving your odds for a job, it won't help more than that unless you were teaching during that time, and in some cases not even then.
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