Job Discussion Forums

[The Lathe of Heaven]

This is to all those who like to play with other people destinies and interfere with their survival. You know who you are. Mod edit They have written slanderous and demeaning mass emails that all the teachers at the current location have received and have done nothing but harm to those poor individuals including me. Others have stayed on and joined forces with those departed to carry on the war of attrition. They have made their devious alliances with the deans of PYP and have whispered slanderous lies in their ears. C.has even written false absence reports (4 days in a row) without even a word of warning or any contact with the unfortunate teacher that got on her wrong side. Now Dar Aloom is going to hire this devious snake so that it can wreak havoc there on those poor souls that don't meet her ungodly lifestyle. There is Ms. M that is supposedly going to Dubai for her next post but I think that is a bluff. She is going to return, possibly with Al-Khaleej and continue her prison guard like teaching methods. She has the blessings of the dean and can do anything she wants. She even flaunts that she has connections in many places. I think she gives favours in return for favours (you know what I mean). Some of her classroom management tactics is to throw markers at students who are talking or not listening. Another method she has of passing her students is giving examples and reviews during exams.

These types of teachers (if you can call them that) deserve to be exposed and sent home. Possibly even informing their respective embassies in so that they can get their certificates revoked.

And now we come to the reason of this post.

To all those newbies and possible first timers here to Saudi: Be aware of these types of lowlife. There is no recourse if you get entangled in their lies. There is no law here to help you. It's like the wild wild west Saudi style. If you have a big mouth someone with a bigger mouth than you will come along and take over you slandering and fabricating.

We are already exposed to harsh conditions here and we are all working for a reason here. Why do some have to behave in these sorts of manners to get to the top?

Trying to lay low and keeping your head down doesn't work with these determined predators that seek you out and attack you. They are truly a spawn from the depths of Hades. They are also Godless (they don't believe in any Holy book) and keep with them and around them the ungodly. You will recognize them from their stench and foul words. So if you are thinking of Saudia please consider these relevant issues that you may well encounter.

Regards and beware

TLOH
(MOD edit for attacks on individuals)

[Never Ceased To Be Amazed]

TLOH...welcome to the Gulf way of life. The BIGGEST difficulty for all has never been the nationals and their ways of doing things...that's merely a nuisance. It's always been the Westerners who are determined to reach the "top" (whatever the hell that might be!) and it doesn't matter on who's shoulders they perch to grab that golden ring...perch and grab they will...

NCTBA

[lucreziaborgia]

TLOH, You seem surprised! It took me 24 hours to realise I would not be in the KSA for the duration of my contract because it was and will remain a hopeless situation for all concerned. The Saudis know it and expats know it. The only expats who can endure the meaningless of the work and lifestyle are those who either can't get a real job elsewhere or are honing their Arabic. The experience may make your CV more interesting but I doubt it. The majority of expats I met in my compound were dreadful and it took me around 30 minutes to work that out. I wish to say there were a handful of exceptions and they were more objective than me; hence they stayed. The 2 months I was there was an interesting experience in enduring futility but to have stayed longer would have been a waste of a year of my life. It is common knowledge that you spend time - not work - in the KSA for the money - which is a delusion - and for that you trade in meaningful work, auhentic friendships and your own integrity. Your bank balance may be enhanced but your career won't. Inside the KSA and outside the KSA people make assumptions as to your reason for working there in the first place hence you will not be taken seriously or respected.
Move on.

[johnslat]

Dear lucreziaborgia,

"The only expats who can endure the meaningless of the work and lifestyle are those who either can't get a real job elsewhere or are honing their Arabic.
"It is common knowledge that you spend time - not work - in the KSA for the money - which is a delusion - and for that you trade in meaningful work, auhentic friendships and your own integrity. Your bank balance may be enhanced but your career won't. Inside the KSA and outside the KSA people make assumptions as to your reason for working there in the first place hence you will not be taken seriously or respected."

Generalize much? And after only two months.

How in heaven's name did you manage to find the time to do the kind of vast survey that would be required to support such statements?

Regards,
John

[lucreziaborgia]

Because I have a lifetime of experience and confidence in my perceptions.

[johnslat]

Dear lucreziaborgia,

Awww, then we've got a disagreement because I've got a lifetime (sixty-seven years years, thirty-three spent teaching) of experience and confidence in my perceptions, too, and i knew a LOT of expat teachers in Saudi (ahem, including myself) who didn't and don't fit into your cookie-cutter stereotype.

Regards,
John

[Grendal]

OK OK while we are still soooo desperate, I'd like to put in my two whiskers worth.

My experience at Al Hassa with Shabaka is worth mentioning here. The students at King Faisal are notorious for going straight to the dean. One day I asked everyone in class to turn to so and so page and noticed that only half the class had brought in their books. Well that was it. I teamed up students with no books with the ones that brought them. The next problem was the lack of notebooks, pens and paper, which 3/4s of the class didn't have. I asked that the ones that do have paper share it with the class and give some to students without paper. It was going good until I noticed no one but a chosen few good students were taking any notes from my meticulous board work. So I decided to stop and asked the students that did take notes if they could photocopy it for the class and give it to them later so that they could do their homework.

What happened after that class was over was beyond me. Some of the students with books went to complain to the dean that I made them share their books with other students. Some of the students with extra paper went to the dean to complain that I made them give out their paper to other students and finally my best students went to the dean and complained that I made them photocopy their notes to hand out to other student who didn't take notes.

I was labelled as inadequate classroom manager from that day on and had regular visits from Mr. PJ observing my class. When I asked for feedback he said that it was ok and there was nothing to worry about. I thought well that's strange because after any sort of classroom observation the teacher being observed should get feedback and also be given a chance to reflect on things done right and things needing improvement. This is what I am used to anyways. It seems that a conspiracy started from that day on to get me out of there and I was eventually asked not to teach summer school that year (2009).

I was furious, to say the least, and asked the dean what his reason for this was. He just said that he did not know about my case personally but noticed that there were a lot of illy qualified teachers that Shabaka had brought in and that he wanted to create a screening process for all the teachers being hired for the next year. The Shabaka side didn't help me out in anyway they just wished the problem (me) to disappear, saving face and avoiding confrontation all in one lethal stroke of the pen.

Hey you from Qassim University going to Al Hassa to work for King Faisal University through Shabaka contracting. Beware or be square. You are entering one of the most dangerous snake pits known to man. You will need to align yourself carefully with the university faculty, students, Shabaka, PJ, the other contracted teachers, and then some. You know who you are and this is my advice to you. You are young and will be like clay in their hands ready to be moulded in their image or cast aside if you are not their shape.

Regards

Grendal

[lucreziaborgia]

Of course you did, JohnSlat. It stands to reason. Likewise, I met people in Viet Nam who you didn't meet.
However, if the comments, questions and descriptions on this forum are any indication of the way things are in the KSA, I suspect there's more weight to my experience and perceptions, than yours.
Most posters here are confused, distressed, betrayed and frustrated.
If I had the motivation to describe a typical day in my working life in the KSA, I am sure it would qualify for the award for 'a panoramic waste of time and resources'.
In every way, working in the KSA in all its asinine induced futility is an oxymoron.
I am sure there is an exception to this but it is buried either under a dune or waddi.
Gertrude Bell's experiences - like yours - are exceptions.

[johnslat]

Dear lucreziaborgia,

Well, I still stand by my experience (over nineteen years) and my perceptions.


"Gertrude Bell's experiences - like yours - are exceptions."

But shucks - I AM an exceptional guy.

Regards,
John

[lucreziaborgia]

Grendal, I am sure your experience is common and intolerable even for those blessed with a highly evolved sense of humour and irony.
One can make excuses for anything and everything through banging on about the lack of management experience etcetera ad nauseum ad infintum but it is obvious this ridiculous system of what? education ? - suits the Saudis.
I made it clear that I did not respect the 'process', my colleagues, my students and management and thus I wished to leave. That is, don't process my Iqama, fire me, pay me out and give me a plane ticket. Instead I was offered a management position. Which I refused. And left.

[lucreziaborgia]

JohnSlat, I described Gertrude Bell's and your experiences as exceptional; not her or you - as exceptional. A distinction that may not fit comfortably with your self image.
However, if you continue to defend the indefensible I'm sure you'll describe that as exceptional and yourself likewise, by extension.

[Mia Xanthi]

[lucreziaborgia]

I am pleased for you Mia that your hard work and fortitude enhanced your life and CV. You are obviously another exception. My experience was not paltry in the KSA in fact it was very revealing. I was fascinated that so many adults could endure it whilst being unhappy, angry, frustrated, sick, betrayed, humiliated, ridiculed and undermined - and still come back for more. It said much to me about the fact that the human spirit can be quashed by ruthless adversity.
I entered the ESL industry after 35 years of work in current affairs. ESL was never meant to be a serious career choice for me as I had had my career. However, I was blessed through getting my first ESL job with the Government of Viet Nam which was both challenging and wonderful. It set a very high standard as did living for 5 years in Viet Nam. The KSA - in comparison - was an exercise in futility in comparison and - in every way.
You may feel similarly perhaps if you worked in Viet Nam. It's horses for courses don't you think?

[johnslat]

Dear lucreziaborgia,

"JohnSlat, I described Gertrude Bell's and your experiences as exceptional; not her or you - as exceptional. A distinction that may not fit comfortably with your self image.
However, if you continue to defend the indefensible I'm sure you'll describe that as exceptional and yourself likewise, by extension."


I suppose I really should eschew the subtle humor, but then, I suspect that everyone's "exceptional" in so many ways.
For example, I find it exceptional that your two months in Saudi gave you such an opportunity to analyze, describe and categorize all the EFL teachers who have ever worked in the Kingdom whereas my nineteen years there only qualified me to defend the indefensible.

You are definitely exceptional.

Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

What an educational thread this has been. We have all been schooled on a whole new idea of how to judge a country, a culture, and its complete employment picture. No longer should we pay any attention to those with 10 or 20 or more years of experience... or those who have worked for a variety of institutions around the country for many years.

I just noticed that Ms Borgia swore back in February that she would never post here again ever because EFL was a joke of career and she didn't like her 2 months in Saudi... even though many of the experienced posters here had warned her about the job before she went. (you know... the ones who had been there for more than two months) Then she re-appeared again in March... and now again on this thread.

VS