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El_Mero_Mero
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 45
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 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: Question about job offer. Too good to be true? |
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Hello,
I was wondering if anyone can tell me how realistic this job offer is? Here goes: http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/edu/1782898067.html
I am specifically talking about the part at the bottom where it mentions the money that can be earned.
Also, I do not have a MA in TESOL or Education, I am just a recipient of a BA in English. I have experience in ESL, but it is not documented, so it is almost like it doesn't exist (or show up until they put me on the spot).
P.S.- I'm not going to make a move from New York right now, but it is always good to know what other options are out there. Thank You for your time and help. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Let's see...the first question you should ask yourself is why would they advertise on Craig's List in the first place?
The USD 84,000 is NOT a pay indication, but a rather dated amount that you can earn overseas tax-free after jumping through few hoops. I'd say the amount they mention is about 10 years old...another indication on how much the advertisement should be viewed. I earned USD 84,000 as an TEFLer once, but then, i woke up...
The actual income exemption ls something like USD 94,000 which should give you an idea on how much they researched it...
Give it a pass, it is obviously a bait-and-switch offer...
NCTBA |
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Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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There is no mention of actual salary to be paid. They simply state that US law allows you to make up to $84.000 without having to pay taxes on it. However, that does not in any way imply that you would be making that much.
With a BA and very little experience, you would be lucky to earn $30,000 US. Maybe lucky isn't the right word, though, since you would have to go through hell at some miserable language institute to earn that money, and in the end you would regret the day you ever responded to that misleading announcement.
I agree with NCTBA: if they are posting the job on Craig's List, there is something terribly wrong. There is not such a big shortage of unqualified EFL teachers that they have to advertise on a general, free site that is completely unrelated to education jobs. Any serious job would be posted in a serious place.
There is no free lunch....  |
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Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Mia Xanthi wrote: |
There is not such a big shortage of unqualified EFL teachers that they have to advertise on a general, free site that is completely unrelated to education jobs.
There is no free lunch.... |
Yes I agree. I am a good example of it El_Mero_Mero. You see I've been here for two years now and am still learning the Saudi Student PSYCOLOGY. My two years prior to Saudi in other countries teaching in multicultural societies was no prep at all for this place. I am in no way qualified enough yet but I feel another year or two will do it. You see it's the second term that always gets me here. Students are eager to pass and get PYP over with and in doing so are a little more egotistically self centered and oblivious about their constant nagging on thier attendence and the number of drafts handed in. They will swarm your office to learn their attendence marks when it's almost too late to recover from the amount of classes they missed. They will constantly put their hands up in class fooling you into thinking that they have the answer you are looking for only to say "teacher bathroom". To which I jokingly show an empty water bottle and point to the corner of the class. They don't seem to go to the dean and complain about that for some reason.
Regards.
MYS |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| well Mr. Grendal sorry to say even after 5, 10 years (if you can hack it) the students will most likely be pulling the same stunts...the only person who will need to change is you and if you are not able to adapt... like others before you...will just move on to greener pastures. |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I am specifically talking about the part at the bottom where it mentions the money that can be earned. |
At the bottom it talks about taxes. About money that can be earned, this is what it says:
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Q. What is the salary?
A. You will be paid a better than competitive salary. for ESL teachers in Saudi Arabia. |
This might be harsh, but how can you teach English if you can't understand it?
And here is a very blatant lie in the ad:
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| The urban centers are modern, beautiful cities with attractive housing, transportation and public services. |
Yes, they are modern, but far from 'beautiful', unless asphalt, concrete, and uninspiring architecture can be termed 'beautiful'. "Attractive housing, transportation and public services"? A total lie. There is almost no public transportation (aside from taxis), public restrooms don't exist and even the ones in the malls are full of water and stink, and postal services are terrible (aside from private/courier companies). Garbage is strewn across streets, and there is tons of construction debris in hundreds of empty sand plots of land all over the city. And there is lots more to say here, but that should suffice.
And a glaringly stupid contradiction:
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| Westerners can live and dress in their normal way, but must be sensitive to the modest customs of a Muslim culture. For example, dress must be modest in public. |
So can they live and dress in their normal way or not? Obviously not. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| You see I've been here for two years now and am still learning the Saudi Student PSYCOLOGY |
Well, a teacher who has poor expectations for his students will fail in his mission. A teacher who does not respect himself, his students will not respect him. |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| 007 wrote: |
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| You see I've been here for two years now and am still learning the Saudi Student PSYCOLOGY |
Well, a teacher who has poor expectations for his students will fail in his mission. A teacher who does not respect himself, his students will not respect him. |
007 has made an important point; if you are not genuine in your approach(respecting yourself) the students will see through your act (they will not care about you and what you have to say). One must be genuinely interested in their learning. This doesn't mean coddling them or allowing them to do as they please just to keep the peace, but rather appropriate behavior as the situation demands; tough love??? Not easy at times, everyone has good and bad days, but you should genuinely enjoy going into the classroom everyday to teach, even the troublesome ones. You have to like what you do (teaching) to put up with the students' antics on a daily basis. If not, then just move on.  If you're only in KSA for the money and don't give damn about the students, then that will surely be a miserable time spent, not to mention a major 'crap' on the teaching profession. Of course there are other considerations...such as decent admin support and living accomodation etc...which can affect ones teaching...all things being equal, one should rise above the fray, and focus on the teaching...ah lofty ideals...
I figure the OP's querry has been answered, so deviating from topic...  |
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El_Mero_Mero
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| Thank You all for your answers. I knew that it was something too good to be true, but I just wanted the official word from those on the ground. |
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Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| 007 has made an important point; if you are not genuine in your approach(respecting yourself) the students will see through your act (they will not care about you and what you have to say). One must be genuinely interested in their learning. |
This point has been made many times before, but still bears repeating. Saudi students know if you genuinely like them or if you are covering a deep disdain and contempt for them and their culture. If you genuinely like them and let them know it (mostly by treating them in the fashion of a somewhat indulgent uncle/aunt) there is very little that they won't do for you. Out of respect for you, the antics will cease and at least a little learning will take place. However, if they sense that you have contempt for them, antics will increase and genuine hostility is likely to develop.
They're very likeable, and all you have to do is be a little flexible and forgiving at the beginning. Take the problem children aside and speak with them firmly but in good humor. Things will get better. If things aren't getting better, get to the boss before they go in a group. That's the kiss of death for a teacher in KSA. |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I knew that it was something too good to be true |
Looks like you still don't get it.
That very large number has nothing to do with how much they will pay you. That was the portion of a salary which would be exempt from being taxed for a US citizen working outside the US.
It clearly says that. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| trapezius wrote: |
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| I knew that it was something too good to be true |
Looks like you still don't get it.
That very large number has nothing to do with how much they will pay you. That was the portion of a salary which would be exempt from being taxed for a US citizen working outside the US.
It clearly says that. |
As I was the first to point out...maybe 10 years ago! That number is up in the mid-90's now!
NCTBA |
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RUBALKHALI
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 71
Location: DESERTSTORM
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: AMERICAN HIGHER EDUCATION AHE |
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THIS THREAD IS ABOUT AMERICAN HIGHER EDUCATION...AN AMERICAN SORT OF COMPANY THAT WAS QUICKLY PUT TOGETHER WITH THE CHAIRMAN IN NEW JERSEY, THE HR IN FLORIDA AND THE CURR. PERSON IN BOSTON. I WAS INTERVIEWED BY PHONE AND COULD SEE STRAIGHT AWAY THAT IT WAS LIKE THE BLIND TRYING TO FIND HIS WAY IN THE THE DESERT.
FIRST OFF, THEY NEED 80 TEACHERS BY SEPT 1...TO TEACH IN 4 TECHNICAL COLLEGES IN 4 DIFFERENT CITIES IN THE KSA. THEY ONLY STARTED RECRUITING IN MID JUNE.. WHICH IS VERY LATE...MEANING THAT THEY WILL BE VERY SHORT OF TEACHERS ON SITE BY SEPT 1.
THE AD THEY FIRST PUT OUT ON ESL WAS MISLEADING TO NEW TEACHERS SAYING ONE CAN DRESS IN WESTERN STYLE IN THE KSA WITH NO PROBLEM...BUT SHORTS AND LOUD T SHIRTS FOR MALES ARE NOT CONSIDERED APPROPRIATE....WOMEN MUST WEAR THE ABAYA. THEN THE AD SAID THE KSA WAS CRIME FREE...WELL LOOK AT THE AHE THREAD I PUT ON HERE ABOUT 3 WEEKS AGO.
AHE ALSO ASKS FUTURE POSSIBLE CANDIDATES TO HELP THEM OUT WITH RECRUITMENT AND CURRICULUM DEVELOPMENT BEFORE THEY ARE OFFICIALLY HIRED...WHICH I THINK IS UNFAIR AND ABUSIVE.
I WAS NOT IMPRESSED WITH THEIR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE KINGDOM AND THEIR INTERVIEW TACTICS.
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lazycomputerkids
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Tabuk
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: AMERICAN HIGHER EDUCATION AHE |
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This thread is about shouting with capital letters, apparently.
It's my understanding a company working in Saudi Arabia must have Saudi ownership. How is American Higher Education (AHE) not owned by a Saudi interest?
80 Teachers in 80 Days at 4 Sites!!!
That's a challenge alright. And selling Saudi Arabia as crime free is misleading.
But you (the OP) lose me by qualifying another fly-by-night, seat-of-the-pants employee drive as "unfair and abusive" when wholly unprofessional might suffice.
I'm intrigued by the OP's indictments of "lack of knowledge" and "interview tactics" but am left to ask for specific example.
These AHE's ads read as desperate for warm bodies. Why the drama? |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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THE EMPTY QUARTER IS NOT THE OP...
NCTBA |
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