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[sheikher]

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2010/06/a-girls-guide-to-saudi-arabia.html


http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2010/08/saudi-arabia-slide-show-201008#slide=1


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128328830

[johnslat]

"Along the way she (Maureen Dowd) interviews eminent Arabians�mostly men, who proudly explain that Saudi society is inexorably changing. They may be right, Dowd admits. But one also wonders: How can they tell?"

Well, maybe because they stayed there more than ten (10) days. Admittedly, there probably weren't too many big changes that took place in the week and a half she was there.

Regards,
John

[fearnot]

A Saudi view of her trip and article

http://qusaytoday.com/en/2010/07/king-abdullah-and-obama-no-its-maureen-and-yo-mama/

[Georgetowner]

Well, maybe because they stayed there more than ten (10) days. Admittedly, there probably weren't too many big changes that took place in the week and a half she was there.


I spent nearly five years in that abominable place...and didn't see anything change much...oh, wait. There was the drive-thru McDonald's...next stop parliamentary democracy!

I happened to be living in the unholy Kingdom at the time of the sixtieth anniversary of its founding. The official statement from the government concerning this auspicious occasion was "The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia...sixty years of progress with no change whatsoever."

[Sheikh N Bake]

[johnslat]

Dear Georgetowner,

Well, nineteen years for me, though not continuously. I arrived in 1980 and took my "Final Exit" in 2003. So I spanned three decades.
During that time, I saw what I'd call "some significant changes," including the ability of the locals to finally admit that such things as spousal abuse, mistreatment of foreign workers, drug/alcohol addiction, and HIV really did occur among Saudis.
And, when satellite TV and the Internet came to the Kingdom, that made for some changes, as well.

But anyone who expects a society to make a 180 degree (or less) turn in anything other than generations is in for disappointment. The mores and traditions of every society are "bred in the bone," and it takes more than 10 days, five years or even nineteen years to accomplish, especially when a significant percentage of the citizenry likely doesn't favor too much change.

Dear Sheik,

Not much gets me angry, but congratulations: you've succeeded. Calling what I posted "an apologist PC remark" was not what I'd have expected from you.
But live and learn.
Regards,
John

[Georgetowner]

Do you honestly imagine "Our Gal" Maureen...star reporter for the New York Times/Washington Post...just went to Saudi on a whim? She hadn't been trying for years as a US journalist to crack the the Desert Kingdom?

Saudi Arabia is an abomination..it is also (along with the other Persian Gulf statlets) one of the chief US client states. It is a hindrance, a menace..and potentially disastrous for the United States to continue this alliance.
Now, if you made a bundle out of the place...good luck....but please don't insult the rest of humanity by defending the wretched Kingdom.

[lazycomputerkids]

[johnslat]

Dear Georgetowner,

"Do you honestly imagine "Our Gal" Maureen...star reporter for the New York Times/Washington Post...just went to Saudi on a whim?"

Of course not - I'm sure that, like the rest of us, she went on a plane.

"She hadn't been trying for years as a US journalist to crack the the Desert Kingdom?"

Hmm, and doesn't the very fact that they finally let her in indicate some degree of (gasp) change?

"Saudi Arabia is an abomination."

I suppose, rather than the country itself, you mean the inhabitants: the Abominable Saudis. Well, over the years, I met quite a few that were well-educated, friendly, hospitable, and very decent. In fact, though it has been seven years now since I left, I still communicate with some of them.

Come to think on it, your tirade against Saudi sounds a lot like what the "Islamic extremists" would rant on about the US.

" . . . . please don't insult the rest of humanity by defending the wretched Kingdom."

Begging the "rest of humanity's" pardon, but while I certainly don't like the government and the policies of Saudi Arabia, I make a distinction between those and a lot of the inhabitants that I met there.
Of course, we here in the US have the same problem when foreigners seem to put the blame for the actions of our government (e.g. the invasion of Iraq) upon us. My goodness - how that can make us feel righteous indignation. I mean it's not fair at all.

Regards,
John

[Sheikh N Bake]

[johnslat]

Dear Sheik,

"Let's say the orig. remark looked like that."

Let's just say your orig. remark sounded like an uncalled for insult.

Regards,
John

[Georgetowner]

we here in the US have the same problem when foreigners seem to put the blame for the actions of our government (e.g. the invasion of Iraq) upon us. My goodness - how that can make us feel righteous indignation. I mean it's not fair at all.

Hey John...Good one...that's right....should someone actually disagree with you...belittle them! Brilliant. Yes, by all means ..bring up the illegal invasion of Iraq...that'll deflect any blame or criticism!

I too am ashamed of the actions of our government...namely supporting a brutal, brutalist regime in the Arabian Peninsula...(actually..several). the same regime which has enabled people like...oh, I don't know..people like...let's say YOU for the sake of conversation.... a horrid regime that has enabled people just like you to retire in relative comfort....just for conspiring with them.

Now John ..here's my idea...as a thoughtful and sensitive person you do not want to profit off Uncle Sam's pernicious minions. So, why not donate all the money you made off Saudi... all your ill-gotten gains...every last cent...to Greenpeace or the Red Cross?
That way you will indeed be blameless, and free to pontificate at length about US foreign policy in the Middle East.

BTW...Who exactly are these "Intelligent and educated " Saudis that apologists always bring up? Does one have to be initiated into some sort of club in order to meet them?
It occurs to me that if these people were really so "intelligent and educated" they would have figured a way of getting out of KSA long ago.

[HunterCom]

[quote="Georgetowner"]

Now John ..here's my idea...as a thoughtful and sensitive person you do not want to profit off Uncle Sam's pernicious minions. So, why not donate all the money you made off Saudi... all your ill-gotten gains...every last cent...to Greenpeace or the Red Cross?
quote]

Well said

[veiledsentiments]

[veiledsentiments]