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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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 Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: Getting Replaced/ Fired in Taiwan |
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| Well today I was told that I was no longer needed at my kindergarten job. They told me it would be my last day. The interesting part was they told me during the students graduation ceremony. Anyways, I am interested in others stories about getting replaced/ fired! I am interested in hearing some good stories. Needless to say I still have my buxiban job. |
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markcmc
Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 262
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry to hear that. Telling someone that without any warning is not the way to do it. I'm not sure you will hear any good stories about this; although now you're free at that time, you may find something better. |
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Taylor
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 384
Location: Texas/Taiwan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:18 am Post subject: |
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Hi Jzer,
If you are in Kaohsiung, then I happen to have a very similar story that I could share with you.
Please give us a few more details (if possible) in order to better understand what happened.
Thank you,
Taylor |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Taylor,
I am in Taipei. I really do not know what to say. I was sitting on a chair right before the performance and I was told that I was no longer needed. I did know this was coming since one day they told me to take off and my students told me that another teacher came that day(demo). I have two interviews this coming week.
The one think that irked me is that the only person who speaks English in the kindergarten was gleaming when she told me that I was no longer needed. |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
Taylor,
I am in Taipei. I really do not know what to say. I was sitting on a chair right before the performance and I was told that I was no longer needed. I did know this was coming since one day they told me to take off and my students told me that another teacher came that day(demo). I have two interviews this coming week.
The one think that irked me is that the only person who speaks English in the kindergarten was gleaming when she told me that I was no longer needed. |
Essentially, you were fired.
The way they went about it is not very up front, is it. They tell you to "take off" and then bring another teacher in for a demo without discussing it with you beforehand?
Never very professional on their part. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| Solar Strength wrote: |
| JZer wrote: |
Taylor,
I am in Taipei. I really do not know what to say. I was sitting on a chair right before the performance and I was told that I was no longer needed. I did know this was coming since one day they told me to take off and my students told me that another teacher came that day(demo). I have two interviews this coming week.
The one think that irked me is that the only person who speaks English in the kindergarten was gleaming when she told me that I was no longer needed. |
Essentially, you were fired.
The way they went about it is not very up front, is it. They tell you to "take off" and then bring another teacher in for a demo without discussing it with you beforehand?
Never very professional on their part. |
Yes, essentially I was fired. I just really don't like how one gets fired in Taiwan without any previous acknowledgment that there is a problem. Why do they always seem to think that replacing someone is the answer? |
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creztor
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 476
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Gotta love Taiwan. We are all replaceable at the drop of a hat. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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JZer,
Having been fired once from a kindergarten in Korea (after they put me in front of 20 kindergarteners and told me I could have neither a co-teacher nor speak any Korean), I feel your pain. And having been fired from Hess, I feel your pain.
Bottom line is, people who say this job is "easy" need a reality check -- no matter how good you are, you can still get fired. Because the truth is, your job performance is completely subjective. One principal may say you're great; another may say you're crap. There are no scores to analyze, no surveys, just the emotions of the autocratic laoban which can change by the second. Heck, I have no signs that I'm going to be fired, but I could get the pink slip tomorrow.
This is seriously the most unstable line of work that I've ever been in. Before getting fired from Daean Kindergarten in South Korea, I'd never been fired before, but now I'm no longer a virgin to getting fired!
Luckily, you still have a buxiban to sponsor your ARC, so all you have to worry about is the reduced income and not the visa. That must be such a relief. Most teachers who get fired in Taiwan are pissing their pants worrying about having to relocate to another country!
Of course, there's nothing that you can do, legally-speaking, since kindy is, by its very nature, illegal. Sure it is illegal to let someone off with less than seven days notice, but it's not like you can go to the CLA or anything, since that would be confessing to a crime. However, I encourage you to put the school on whatever blacklists you feel necessary, and play a little bit dirty if you want. Sounds like they deserve it. Maybe you can leave a note for the next teacher in a place you know he'll find it.
It seems that the majority of guys on this forum have been fired at some time or another, in your case and my case, we've each been fired twice! Honestly, I'm sick of my livelihood being dependent on what some "laoban" thinks of me -- as soon as I finish my bachelor's degree, I'm going to start working on my Web-based business. I just want it to be me and the open, capitalistic market. Adam Smith's form of perfect justice. Not some fickle laoban who grins like the Cheshire Cat one moment and screws you the next. Not some whiney parents or kids who get angry when you try to maintain classroom normalcy. Just me and the open market! That's the dream! |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| creztor wrote: |
| Gotta love Taiwan. We are all replaceable at the drop of a hat. |
Correct, except substitute "EFL" for "Taiwan." EFL is the unstable part. Someone living in Taiwan with an APRC and his own solid business would not have problems with replaceability or stability.
I have been in JZer's position before. I feel his pain. Getting fired sucks, but getting fired overseas sucks 10x more.
For this reason, as soon as I finish my bachelor's degree, I'm going to work on starting an online business. I'm going to try to make a living wage only from online/freelance work, and hopefully grow it to the point where I can just live in Asia on a student visa and not have to worry about laoban, buxiban, letters of release, work permits, or any of that crap.
When I finish my BS, I want to experiment with the following:
- Using eBay to sell imported things to Americans and others.
- Blogging and generating revenue from Google AdSense.
- Writing software (particularly things like iPhone apps, Java cell phone games, Windows shareware, etc.) and selling it.
- Translations (I am KLPT Level 5 in Korean).
- Proofreading
- "Rent-a-Gaijin/Rent-a-Laowai" -- you pay me by the hour to carry out any task you want -- shopping for obscure things, conveying messages, taking photos, whatever you want, as long as you have the $$.
- Freelance gigs on freelance sites
- Participating in university research projects -- I made hundreds of US dollars doing this in Korea, but I could have multiplied that by ten had I had a good way of monitoring every single university bulletin board.
Basically just put all those mini streams of income together, and hope it comes out to about $20K (US) a year. At that point, I'll be doing just as well financially as the average English teacher these days.
I think the real key is to be self-employed. Through negative experience after negative experience, this has become increasingly clear. When you are self-employed, nobody can fire you but yourself.
And when you're self-employed, the bad economy may take a big bite out of your business, but your chances of your income suddenly being cut to $0 a month are very small. You'll still make something -- maybe you'll just have to tighten your belt. However, getting slashed to $0 a month right out of the blue is the very definition of getting fired from a company.
I also think Taiwanese companies have a huge problem with transparency -- if they'd just be open about things and communicate in the first place, there wouldn't be so many firings and festering problems. If they'd just tell me what the problem is, where the money is being hemorrhaged, what I need to fix, etc. I could do it -- but it's all a big secret until you get fired. When I'm my own boss, I'll know exactly where the money comes from and exactly where it's going, and can adjust accordingly. I hope to be out of EFL forever within two years.
EFL is going NOWHERE. Anyone reading this post could be fired tomorrow. |
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markcmc
Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 262
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Actually getting fired has given me such a good feeling of freedom in the past.
And tefl has given me the freedom to travel & live all over the world.
But, ultimately, we need to choose for ourselves. And I completely agree with Rooster, above, about this. About the power of being self-employed. It's not for everyone, but if you're suited to it, it's a great way to go. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Bottom line is, people who say this job is "easy" need a reality check -- no matter how good you are, you can still get fired. Because the truth is, your job performance is completely subjective. One principal may say you're great; another may say you're crap. There are no scores to analyze, no surveys, just the emotions of the autocratic laoban which can change by the second. Heck, I have no signs that I'm going to be fired, but I could get the pink slip tomorrow. |
Funny, the boss told me that the students loved me which is true. Or maybe I am being too subjective. The students are always happy in my class and learned to read the story books. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| For this reason, as soon as I finish my bachelor's degree, I'm going to work on starting an online business. I'm going to try to make a living wage only from online/freelance work, and hopefully grow it to the point where I can just live in Asia on a student visa and not have to worry about laoban, buxiban, letters of release, work permits, or any of that crap. |
Or one can just save over $10,000 or more so that even if your employer fires you, you can loaf around while looking for a new job. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| For this reason, as soon as I finish my bachelor's degree, I'm going to work on starting an online business. I'm going to try to make a living wage only from online/freelance work, and hopefully grow it to the point where I can just live in Asia on a student visa and not have to worry about laoban, buxiban, letters of release, work permits, or any of that crap. |
Or one can just save over $10,000 or more so that even if your employer fires you, you can loaf around while looking for a new job. |
To each his own, but I know where I'd rather put my energy. When I add up all the time I've spent going to the immigration office, chasing papers, planning lessons, making games for classes, doing unpaid training, etc., writing communications books, grading workbooks, doing "company events," etc. I'm fairly sure my hourly wage teaching English in Taiwan has not exceeded US$8 per hour. I'm pretty sure I could be doing better with self-employment if I really put my skills to use.
Besides, when most teachers here are lucky to make more than 45K per month these days, how would one go about saving up $10,000? It seems like that'd take close to two years even if one lived frugally. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Interestingly, I was asked to write an esl textbook! |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| markcmc wrote: |
Actually getting fired has given me such a good feeling of freedom in the past.
And tefl has given me the freedom to travel & live all over the world.
But, ultimately, we need to choose for ourselves. And I completely agree with Rooster, above, about this. About the power of being self-employed. It's not for everyone, but if you're suited to it, it's a great way to go. |
Mark and Rooster,
You've raised some good points. I liked teaching in Japan for this very reason. I "self-sponsored" my own work visa (that's not the official name of the visa) so that I wasn't contracted by a single school.
Instead, I was sort of a self-employed EFL consultant. I had about 5 or 6 different companies that I worked for - High Schools, Language Schools, Companies, privates in the coffee shops.
If I were to ever get fired by one or two places, I could keep going without fear of having to bail out back to Korea or wherever. I was lucky and was never fired, but this would be a safeguard against losing your job and not having any work or income.
I also like Japan for the very reason that if you do get fired or quit, you simply go and find another job because your work permit and ARC are not tied to your employer.
I wish Taiwan would adopt the same laws for their work visas. |
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