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aspiringesl
Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 24
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 Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: Masters in TESOL not equivalent to PGDE? |
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Reposted from HK thread, may get more replies here 
When chatting with a net recruiter from HK, they claimed that if I received a Master of Arts in TESOL from Columbia University that it would not be equivalent to a PGDE and I would not be able to go above a certain salary scale. This is very strange to me because the MA in TESOL programme does qualify me to gain teacher certification in the state of New York and PGDE are not offered in America. Does anyone have comments about this, is it merely a cultural difference that confused the net recruiter into saying that my salary would not be equal to that of a qualified teacher? Or would I have to get an MA in TESOL and a seperate education diploma?
http://www.tc.columbia.edu/academic/tesol/detail.htm?Id=Degrees+Offered&Info=Master+of+Arts+with+K-12+Certification+Track+%2838-39+points%29
link for the programme in case anyone wanted to look.
Basically I want to ask, wouldn't a Bachelor of Arts in English and a Master of Arts in TESOL with NY teacher certificate be enough to enter the net scheme? The recruiter claimed that I would need my Bachelors, Masters in TESOL AND an additional PGDE? Any esl vets care to help clarify for me? |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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A master's degree in TESOL is not a PGDE - it's actually more than a PGDE. The PGDE is a mere graduate certificate or diploma in education, it is not a degree; it's a one-year add-on to an undergraduate degree in the subject you want to teach - at one time it was referred to as a PGCE. In the UK it's essentially a teaching licensure.
In between an undergraduate degree (in the UK a bachelor's with honors) and a master's degree are these graduate certificates or diplomas. You can get them in a variety of fields. Here's a list of places in the U.S. and Canada that offer graduate certificates in TESOL: http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/sec_document.asp?CID=124&DID=426
I think what the recruiter meant to tell you was that having a master's degree was not the same as having a government teaching certification, e.g. being a licensed teacher in New York State (though in New York State every licensed teacher in the government schools is required to eventually obtain a master's degree). |
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aspiringesl
Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| So if I obtained my MA in TESOL that also gave me teacher certification in NYS, shouldn't I be completely able to move up the salary scale? |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| aspiringesl wrote: |
| So if I obtained my MA in TESOL that also gave me teacher certification in NYS, shouldn't I be completely able to move up the salary scale? |
One would think so; unless the school in question is essentially saying they'll only accept teacher licensure from the UK. |
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aspiringesl
Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Doubt that is the case, I assume the recruiter was just confused and thought the MA in Tesol was just that, and did not realise that the programme does culminate in creating ESL teachers that are certified to teach in NYS, which in fact would, I assume, allow me to completely qualify for the net scheme in Hong Kong as well as moving up the salary scale.
Hope that's the case! |
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scintillatestar
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 74
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| I am doing that exact same program at Columbia...starting in one week, actually. Yes, I believe it was a miscommunication. PCGE = a U.S. state teaching certificate. The K-12 track at Columbia prepares you to teach in a K-12 school. There is another track at Columbia, the general track, that focuses on adults. Rather than field work and student teaching, you teach adults in their language lab/school. This track also offers a masters without a cert. It would not prepare you for teaching K-12 and thus would not really be of much value for NET. The recruiter probably thought you were doing the general track. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Chancellor wrote: |
| A master's degree in TESOL is not a PGDE - it's actually more than a PGDE. The PGDE is a mere graduate certificate or diploma in education, it is not a degree; it's a one-year add-on to an undergraduate degree in the subject you want to teach |
As opposed to a one-year masters in the subject you want to teach (not to mention that it's often a one-year masters in a subject you want to teach that you do not have to have an academic background in already, and that doesn't include a practicum)? ..... 
Or a one-year certificate in teaching ESL (one that does include a practicum: you can find some within that list on the TESOL site)? Which at one time was called a B.Ed (TESL) at at least one university...
Or a one year B.Ed in the subject you want to teach... which obviously IS a degree. An undergraduate degree, though the prerequisite to get in is a bachelor's degree in the subject you want to teach. And is the same thing as a PGCE (now PGDE apparently).
A masters in TESOL is a 'masters' because the point is to be able to teach at a university. The target is adult learners. In this case, the target is somewhere within k-12. However, you cannot teach at a university (in most places) without a masters degree. That's why if you have that one-year "certificate" in TESL you still cannot teach ESL at a university, but that same one-year "certificate" in TESL plus a masters degree in math or geography or ANYTHING else, and you're golden. If you don't already have a masters degree, you could, of course, choose to do that masters degree in applied linguistics / TESOL / SLA if you want (so long as you have the prerequisite: that one-year certificate in TESL), and that's definitely what the schools that offer those programs are hoping for.
The name of any program or qualification from any university is part of the marketing that university uses to attract customers (students). And it works. How many of us have seen or even participated in "Should I do a masters degree in Applied Linguistics or TESOL???" debates, when the two individual programs being looked at are the same thing. 'Applied Linguistics' just sounds nice and fancy, while TESOL sounds all teacherly. If the length of a program and the depth of the study are the same, then it's a masters. Sometimes the reason why it isn't called a masters boils down to things totally unrelated to the qualification itself- like if it takes the province years to approve a new masters degree from an individual university, especially if it's not in a 'normal' subject like 'English literature' (as opposed to "English literature and creative writing"), but universities can avoid the requirement of a governmental stamp of approval by calling it a 'certificate' (and can then hit the jackpot later by getting something in "Applied" + [normal university major name] which will go through the process faster {"masters degree in applied mathematics" is a lot easier to get approved than "masters in making your own R2D2 and C3P0" though it could be exactly the same thing}). Then you can have people do the first certificate as a prerequisite to the masters even though that's different than the international norm. Your department will score LARGE on repeat customers though!
This is just a guess, but PGCE may have changed to PGDE because, if the UK is the same as Australia, then a post-grad certificate in something is usually ONE term full-time (4 units). A diploma is TWO terms full-time (8 units), which incidentally, is also how long a masters degree in TESOL is with a four-year degree at universities in Australia (and that's for an all-coursework degree, not a coursework plus thesis- the thesis would count for more than a single unit), and is two units worth LESS than some of the Canadian one-year TESL certificates (5 full courses = 10 half courses. A half course is the same as a unit in Australia). And is the length of a PGDE. It's all about marketing the qualification, or more properly, marketing the program by creating program names that will allow graduates to market themselves through qualification names.
I agree with scintillatestar. The recruiter is basically looking for a qualification specifically for teaching at some level within k-12 schooling. Adult teaching (specifically teaching ESL to adult immigrants) may be a teaching qualification in some areas, but it either isn't recognized in Hong Kong or it's just not relevant to the job. |
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aspiringesl
Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Hey man! so are you doing this with the goal of becoming a net as well?? Someone also said that perhaps it would not be accepted because it leads to "only an initial teacher certificate" but I feel like that would be enough to become a teacher in HK? We should keep in touch mate, I'd really like to here about your experience in Columbia's TESOL programme as I won't apply until next semester, it would be great to here some first hand accounts of the programme!
| scintillatestar wrote: |
| I am doing that exact same program at Columbia...starting in one week, actually. Yes, I believe it was a miscommunication. PCGE = a U.S. state teaching certificate. The K-12 track at Columbia prepares you to teach in a K-12 school. There is another track at Columbia, the general track, that focuses on adults. Rather than field work and student teaching, you teach adults in their language lab/school. This track also offers a masters without a cert. It would not prepare you for teaching K-12 and thus would not really be of much value for NET. The recruiter probably thought you were doing the general track. |
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scintillatestar
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 74
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Sure, feel free to PM me. I don't think you should have any problem with PCGE v. a U.S. state certificate. The NY cert is very well-respected, too, because the requirements are so rigorous. I have heard that the NET program prefers British English speakers (likely due to the country's history), but there are Yanks too. Btw -do you speak British English? Your spelling is British. |
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aspiringesl
Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| haha no im from ny as well, but I've been studying in Australia so I've kind of assimilated the British way of spelling O.o |
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aspiringesl
Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Is there even a national US certificate for teaching anyways? thought education was completely a state thing! |
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