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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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 Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: Forget Mexico |
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This is for any potential TEFL teacher looking to teach in Mexico right now.
Just my opinion.
Forget about Mexico.
This is just a few of my personal observations of life teaching English in Mexico.
There are too many problems to mention them all in a single post or even in a 100 posts. True many of those said problems are endemic to 3rd world countries in general. But Mexico is a place that is fast going from the proverbial frying pan and into the fire.
For newbies, a place like Mexico City (aka the DF, short for Distrito Federal) while offering jobs is also a daunting and even dangerous place to be. I've personally witnessed 3 armed robberies in the past year. I have students and friends that have been robbed and kidnapped at gunpoint. It's not something I really worried about before, but I do now.
Mexico is now ranked number 5 in the world for per capita murder rates.
No, I am not an alarmist. I have spent almost six years living and working in Mexico. I do (as do most of the posters here) have a vested interest in Mexico. I can not just pack up and leave. But for those of you who have no real connection to Mexico, please consider other options. I see no point in trying to defend a place simply because I live there. I accept it for what is now. Things will never change in Mexico. I am seeing it everyday in the news.
We have a president who promised jobs but has instead brought about a drug war on a massive scale in a country woefully unprepared at every level to conduct any such operations. The government is so naive (or incompetent or both) it even released the name of a Marine killed in a raid on a top drug lord whose grieving mother and sister were promptly murdered.
In the last week we've seen decapitated bodies hung from bridges, a mayor killed by his own police (who were on a drug cartel's payroll), 2 car bombs detonated, a massacre of 72 Latin American migrants, the murder of the investigator of said case and the cancellation of Bicentennial Independence Day celebrations in Cd. Juarez.
Sadly I've seen wages stagnate and inflation more than double the price I pay for something so basic as a liter of milk.
Long-term I see little future in being an English teacher in Mexico. Sure, some people do OK. But nepotism is still a way of life here. You can have reams of experience, qualifications etc and apply for a job just to see it given to someone who can barely speak English simply because the know somebody or they are a relative.
There are is no Mexican Social Security. Private pensions are all you can hope for. There's always fear the peso could devalue again and your savings could be wiped out. Mexican banks don't allow accounts in US dollars.
And even for somebody who becomes a Mexican citizen they will always be a 2nd class citizen. That's made very clear.
So at the end of the day I think that other countries in South America could provide a much better Latin TEFL experience for people. More and better opportunities. Safer and more stable. Skip Mexico and keep heading south. |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Mexico is now ranked number 5 in the world for per capita murder rates. |
I feel the need to offset this very bleak post that would be enough to confirm any foreigner's fears of the drug-haven and violence-ridden paradise broadcasted on CNN time and time again.
First off, there are pockets of Mexico that are dangerous. I've never lived in Mexico City, but many of the posters here have. They can tell you first hand if they've ever experienced any violence, muggings, etc. I've heard stories sure. My former neighbor's car was stolen and he told me that he was once kidnapped. I don't care to live in big cities whether in the states or Mexico, but I would never be afraid to go visit Mexico City. I'd be smart and wouldn't venture into bad areas. That's all.
I've lived 3 months in Guadalajara and going on 5 years in Queretaro, and I've never had anything close to a bad experience or a close call. I don't think Puebla, Aguascalientes, San Luis Potosi, and a lot of other smaller cities in central Mexico are dangerous, but posters who live there can tell you more. Queretaro for one is not dangerous (apart from the the drivers, most of whom come from D.F.  ).
Murders are also mostly in the drug front. If you're teaching English, I don't think you'll be in the middle. I have friends from Sinaloa, where some of the most serious drug violence goes on, and they say the same. If you're not involved, you tend not to see it (and that's an extreme example because Sinaloa has been in the news a lot).
| Quote: |
| Long-term I see little future in being an English teacher in Mexico... So at the end of the day I think that other countries in South America could provide a much better Latin TEFL experience for people. More and better opportunities. Safer and more stable. Skip Mexico and keep heading south. |
If you're an inexperienced teacher who wants to make money, I'd say not only forget about Mexico but forget about Latin America. But then again people I've never had the impression that people come here for the money.
| Quote: |
| Mexican banks don't allow accounts in US dollars. |
Mexican banks may not, but other financial organizations that operate as savings funds similar to banks do, such as Actinver Lloyd. And there are plenty of them. If you have dollars that you don't want to convert to pesos, there's nothing to it really. Plenty of people do.
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| But nepotism is still a way of life here. You can have reams of experience, qualifications etc and apply for a job just to see it given to someone who can barely speak English simply because the know somebody or they are a relative. |
It's not what you know. It's who you know. That's true all over the world. It's human nature. Yes, it's even more true in Mexico. Life is about relationships, not knowledge. If you really want to get ahead, make friends. It's much more important to be well-liked than to be right. And while competence may not receive all the recognition that it should, incompetence will burn you.
I don't think the situation in Mexico is as bleak as this poster makes it out to be. I hope other people post. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| mejms wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Mexico is now ranked number 5 in the world for per capita murder rates. |
I feel the need to offset this very bleak post that would be enough to confirm any foreigner's fears of the drug-haven and violence-ridden paradise broadcasted on CNN time and time again.
First off, there are pockets of Mexico that are dangerous. I've never lived in Mexico City, but many of the posters here have. They can tell you first hand if they've ever experienced any violence, muggings, etc. I've heard stories sure. My former neighbor's car was stolen and he told me that he was once kidnapped. I don't care to live in big cities whether in the states or Mexico, but I would never be afraid to go visit Mexico City. I'd be smart and wouldn't venture into bad areas. That's all.
I've lived 3 months in Guadalajara and going on 5 years in Queretaro, and I've never had anything close to a bad experience or a close call. I don't think Puebla, Aguascalientes, San Luis Potosi, and a lot of other smaller cities in central Mexico are dangerous, but posters who live there can tell you more. Queretaro for one is not dangerous (apart from the the drivers, most of whom come from D.F. ).
Murders are also mostly in the drug front. If you're teaching English, I don't think you'll be in the middle. I have friends from Sinaloa, where some of the most serious drug violence goes on, and they say the same. If you're not involved, you tend not to see it (and that's an extreme example because Sinaloa has been in the news a lot).
| Quote: |
| Long-term I see little future in being an English teacher in Mexico... So at the end of the day I think that other countries in South America could provide a much better Latin TEFL experience for people. More and better opportunities. Safer and more stable. Skip Mexico and keep heading south. |
If you're an inexperienced teacher who wants to make money, I'd say not only forget about Mexico but forget about Latin America. But then again people I've never had the impression that people come here for the money.
| Quote: |
| Mexican banks don't allow accounts in US dollars. |
Mexican banks may not, but other financial organizations that operate as savings funds similar to banks do, such as Actinver Lloyd. And there are plenty of them. If you have dollars that you don't want to convert to pesos, there's nothing to it really. Plenty of people do.
| Quote: |
| But nepotism is still a way of life here. You can have reams of experience, qualifications etc and apply for a job just to see it given to someone who can barely speak English simply because the know somebody or they are a relative. |
It's not what you know. It's who you know. That's true all over the world. It's human nature. Yes, it's even more true in Mexico. Life is about relationships, not knowledge. If you really want to get ahead, make friends. It's much more important to be well-liked than to be right. And while competence may not receive all the recognition that it should, incompetence will burn you.
I don't think the situation in Mexico is as bleak as this poster makes it out to be. I hope other people post. |
Actually I think it's even bleaker 
The entire north of Mexico is a "no-go" zone. A third of the country is in what amounts to the begginings of a civil war. I would not call that a "few" pockets.
I have been in Mexico for six years and things are not getting better, it's getting worse.
And I don't want to own a language school. I wanted to be a teacher and possibly move up in a school. Where's the career path? Fast-food in the US has a real career path, shouldn't teaching English in Mexico at least offer as much?
And I feel that newbies have the right to see views from both sides of the coin.
Those mid-size cities all lack one thing: Real opportunity and jobs. Mexico only has a few real centers and DF is the center of it all. I saw everything there is to see in Queretaro in a week. And after that's it's boring. Now that's my take on it. Maybe it works for you.
And Mexico is great if you are collecting a social security check, pension or have a $100,000 in the bank. What about those of us who have to work for a living and have a career?
It's OK. I am one of the lucky few who can live wherever I choose and still practice my choosen profesion. I can work in the US and live in Mexico. |
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amaranto
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 133
Location: M�xico, D.F.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with mejms in that this post is indeed very bleak. Newcomers to Mexico should do their research and come with realistic expectations. This is not a first world country in many ways, but that is common knowledge. Nor is it a third world country according to most definitions of the term.
I know many people who have lived and taught in other parts of Latin America, and they seem to find Mexico quite pleasant in many respects. Everyone is different and entitled to his or her opinion, of course.
There are still many reasons to come to Mexico: to experience a different culture, to develop one's career (which seems to still be very possible based on the posts of several of the forum members, myself included), and to eat some really good food ( my favorite part).
If I had the same feelings about Mexico as the OP, I would not be here. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I hope other people post. |
I would be a little out-of-character to not post on such a topic. 
I remember getting similar advice 10 years ago, just before coming here and after having arrived. Obviously, I didn't heed it and am glad I didn't since the greatest teacher is, as ever, experience.
About a month before I came down, a bar in DF had caught fire and 19 people were killed. The place was called Lobo Hombo, and it is now a fire station in honour of those that died. And at the time, I was warned all bars and antros were 'death traps'.
During my first year here, armored car robberies were all the news in DF. They were happening just about every week. That petered out the following year.
Let's see, what else did they warn me about? People here told me never to hail taxis off the street as they would rob you. Only use the sitios. They told me never to visit Tepito - dangerous area. They told me never to carry much money, never to ride in the metro, never drink the water.
In those ten years, I've almost always hailed taxis off the street. I've been to Tepito once and wouldn't visit at night. I don't carry around much money since debit cards and credit cards are easy enough to use. I use the metro all the time. I've even drunk the water, though I prefer bottled water as the city stuff is all chemical like back home.
Ten years ago, the big stories on the narco front were the escape fro a federal prison of Chapo Guzman and narcos killing other narcos in and around Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana, and Culiacan. Sounds similar, albeit more intense these days.
Ten years ago, a big concern was illegal immigration and Mexicans crossing the border at will. Sounds familiar?
Do robberies happen in DF? Of course. I know of one foreign teacher (maybe two) who has been mugged. Have heard of all kinds of Mexicans that have been robbed too. I've never seen one happen but I am not everywhere at once.
Do murders happen in DF? Of course. I've never seen one nor know anyone who has or that knows anyone else that has, at least not that has ever been mentioned. Murder is not that common in DF, so no surprise it isn't on everyone's lips.
Is it getting worse? If I go by media reports, then it seems the narco stuff is getting worse, or at least in the news a lot more. It's always been so far away and easy to ignore since I've nothing to do with drugs at all. No one I know is cartel or has ever been involved in anything past or present with what's happening in some places around the country.
Is it getting worse in DF? I think crime is probably up since the economy is down. I had my bicycle stolen a couple of months ago and that was something new. The petty stuff may be on the increase here, but nothing else seems to be.
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For jobs, it has been stagnant. Wages haven't moved much at all, especially in the last 4 years. I'm in a line of work that keep me in touch with a lot of schools all over Mexico and Latin America. Pretty much the same everywhere. Inflation up, wages the same so it's not as attractive as it used to be, but as mentioned, nowhere in Latin America has ever been a place to teach for big money.
| Quote: |
| Mexican banks don't allow accounts in US dollars. |
Bancomer does and I'm pretty sure Scotia does as well. I think what was meant here is that banks don't allow US dollar exchanges, which is also wrong. Exchanges are limited but not prohibited. This country does an enormous amount of business in US dollars (90% of exports go to the US, nevermind tourism).
| Quote: |
| But nepotism is still a way of life here. You can have reams of experience, qualifications etc and apply for a job just to see it given to someone who can barely speak English simply because the know somebody or they are a relative. |
I imagine this is true, but I've never seen it in EFL teaching (not enough money in the field to make a difference). I've seen this at some mid-level private schools though I've never seen anyone lose a job because of it. Again, something that is rather irrelevant to the foreign teacher. |
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amaranto
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 133
Location: M�xico, D.F.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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No, I do not own a house or a car here. I would like to in the future, though, and I don't see any impediment to this.
(This response was to Professor's question, which I believe has been removed or I'm just going crazy  ) |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I hope other people post. |
During my first year here, armored car robberies were all the news in DF. They were happening just about every week. That petered out the following year. |
Could it be because the armored cars now routinely operate 2 at a time? 6-8 guards, the ones with the money have guns out, the other ones (to provide cover fire) all have either shotguns or AR-15's at the ready. I also know they hire mostly ex-military for those companies. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| amaranto wrote: |
No, I do not own a house or a car here. I would like to in the future, though, and I don't see any impediment to this.
(This response was to Professor's question, which I believe has been removed or I'm just going crazy ) |
Well, not so easy to just up and leave once one has a "vested" interest in a country, as well as family. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Could it be because the armored cars now routinely operate 2 at a time? 6-8 guards, the ones with the money have guns out, the other ones (to provide cover fire) all have either shotguns or AR-15's at the ready. I also know they hire mostly ex-military for those companies. |
Every time I see an armored car pulling up to a VIPS, an Oxxo, or whatever other business, it looks exactly the same as it did 10 years ago. 3 or 4 guys, all armed, one truck. No difference at all.
9 years ago though, the city revamped the police section that deals with banks and armored cars. I suspect that had more to do with the change. Seems common for Mexico City police officials to dedicate more resources to tackle trends that come up. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Back to my original point: There are many other places to live and teach. Ones which extend citizenship and residency quicker. Others with less xenophobia. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| amaranto wrote: |
No, I do not own a house or a car here. I would like to in the future, though, and I don't see any impediment to this.
(This response was to Professor's question, which I believe has been removed or I'm just going crazy ) |
Well, not so easy to just up and leave once one has a "vested" interest in a country, as well as family. |
Sorry, this thread is moving rapidly and going in a few different directions at once.
My girlfriend and I discussed this a lot before we bought property and had a baby all in the same year. I've been here 10 years and she's been here 5. One of things we deemed important was mobility before making any decisions. Mobility hasn't been limited by our decisions, though that's not going to be the case for everyone in a similar position.
Our daughter has dual nationality, so a move to Canada is possible. As a matter of fact, that move is in the playbook for us as we'd like her to get some experience living there.
We jumped at the chance to buy property in 2009 when market prices were down, snagging our place at 20% less than what the bank and the city assessed the property at. The price is manageable enough that we can stay her, flip it, or rent it out, depending on what our other plans are. If we go to Canada (or Turkey, Argentina, or Africa as has been discussed based on opportunity), then I think renting our the apartment would be best, again depending on what the market is like at that future time. Now isn't that time of course.
'Vested interest' for me has a lot of different meanings and outlets, but if I had to pick the most important, it would be my daughter. She's getting the best of several worlds right now as far as we see it.
Later add:
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| Others with less xenophobia. |
Xenophobia? Are you saying Mexicans are xenophobic? |
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amaranto
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 133
Location: M�xico, D.F.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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"Well, not so easy to just up and leave once one has a "vested" interest in a country, as well as family."
I think I'm beginning to see the source of your frustration. There is no way to see where a place will head after you've purchased assets there, and you hope for the best.
From what I gather of Mexico, though, simply being a teacher in a school is not and has never been a path to great economic advancement. And emerging economies have upward mobility issues in general, not just Mexico. You pretty much have to own a business business here to make real money (I guess this depends on your definition of real money.).
I have never once experienced a xenophobic reaction from a Mexican, though. I would say Americans (I'm American.) are MUCH more xenophobic, and we have tougher citizenship requirements for people who wish to move to our country to work and live. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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I'm saying that mexicans are VERY XENOPHBIC. I have experienced it here a lot. Of course americans are xenophobic amaranto. NOT! You think the mexicans are less xenophobic than americans???
Not sure which mexico you're living in. I experience it all the time here. There seems to be a belief that only white people from the states are racist and or xenophobic.
Look the word up. A strong dislike or fear. I have experienced a strong dislike of americans here often. One thing I have learned living and teaching in mexico and that is that racism and xenophobic attitudes are alive and well in mexico city.
I know a lot of teachers of ESL are anti american, possibly why they are living in mexico and not that evil U.S.  |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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I've just read this thread, the rantings of a very unhappy camper and the reasoned responses of the rest of you. Talk about stacking the evidence to prove your case - Prof. Gringo has done a not-so-subtle job of that.
One thing that does stand out in its wrong-headedness is the idea that Mexico is xenophobic. Where in the hell did that idea come from? Of course, if one walks around fuming and snorting about how awful a country is, the locals are apt to react in kind and not treat you very kindly . |
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amaranto
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 133
Location: M�xico, D.F.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I think we live in two completely different worlds, then
And, yes, I do know what "xenophobia" means. Here is a definition, that, for me, does not describe Mexicans in general: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia?show=0&t=1283276293.
A lot of the way individuals in a society react to foreigners is based upon the way foreigners personally treat them. Based on your exaggerated responses in this forum, I can see why you might find living in Mexico difficult.
I have nothing more to add to this thread. Maybe some other people have better insight about the future of ESL in Mexico. |
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