Job Discussion Forums

[mrwslee003]

Most of the Fts are earning 5-10g's Rmb for their services in the Peope's Republic, a fraction of what they would earn in their native country. China needs the English skills to do business with other countries. The Fts are fulfilling that need. Each Ft does his own searching and negotiating with the individual schools or with the recruiters to get a contract on a job. Afterward, few or many may be left on his own to make sure the contract is adhered to by the employer. How many Fts are without any local language skills to communicate their concerns and get frustrated or cheated in the process? We don't know and there is no way of getting an accurate number. Is it important that such Fts get help? Is it important that we know where most of the problems come from? Is it important that we have such problems resolved openly?

China is a giant of a country. She is venturing into a reform to improve the livelihood of her people. It is a humongous task. A task that requires extraordinary means if she is to succeed. Some means may not have been thought of before. All the Fts, offshore workers, would like their contribution as efficiently dispensed as possible. Which may mean trouble free contracts.

Are most of the contracts fair and consistently honoured? If not, maybe an office of an association could help, and it could be financed by a fee contributed by each Ft. Is it needed? Is it worthwhile?

[DixieCat]

[vikeologist]

So, allow me to break this down. You want to start an Independent Trade Union.

In China.

[Zero]

It might not appeal to me personally, but I guess the OP can do what he wants. After all, it's a free countr ... oh, wait ...

[roadwalker]

I don't think our potential salaries in our home countries are relevant. I made more money in the US, but a) the conditions and qualifications were different (I'm not a licensed teacher); and b) my old job is gone. Pffft. I would make more money than in China, but currently, good jobs are hard to come by. I could find work at a lower salary fairly quickly possibly.

Instead of a union to represent teachers in China or any other country, I think it would make more sense to establish a guild of some sort. Instead of screaming for one's rights based only on notions of fairness, create a product that is dependable and sought after.

It may sound elitist, but really, how many of us are highly qualified educators? How many are even serious about the work, let alone having top-notch quals? Establish a guild of English teaching professionals, decide on minimum qualifications (perhaps by category), do all the vetting internally and thoroughly and eventually the guild could dictate minimum salaries. Create a brand that takes the guess work out of hiring a foreign teacher and many schools will pay a premium. Of course one would need to collect dues to verify credentials, advertise, and protect the membership roles from forgeries among other things.

A union would run up against a wee bit of opposition from the government. A pre-qualified group of professionals, less.

[DixieCat]

[choudoufu]

sooo.....china needs more bureaucracy?

[xi.gua]

Dealing with clueless Chinese on one side, and clueless foreigners on the other, and hoping to put them together without any problems.

I knew an agency that did this and they provided really good support for those who utilized it. The problem is everyone is so clueless you realize you can start taking more and more money from both sides without them having any idea that somethings not right. At that point, you stop caring about "speaking for the individual" and start trying to get as many suckers as possible so you can get their money.

If you can do it go for it. I would be very skeptical.

[wangdaning]

Unions are illegal in China, as with most Marxist based nations. The people are the union and the solution.

That is the ideology of the leaders. Forming any type of teachers association will just get you into trouble. You are a guest here, never think about any right, except the right to leave (maybe).

My point is the Chinese government is not friendly to anybody who wants to make changes.

[DixieCat]

[Teatime of Soul]

A true "professional" organization would:

1, Establish educational qualification minimum levels.

2. Have initial competency testing.

3. Be self-policing with the ability to investigate, sanction and/or expel wrongdoing members, much like the A.B.A. or A.M.A in the USA.

Otherwise, you are perhaps thinking of a collective bargaining unit, like unions.
Open or closed shops?
Dues paying or not?
Representation at the local and/or national level, or not?
Apprenticeship leading to master certifications and training, or not?

Quite a bit of organization and consensus building required to get either scheme up and running, provided it is even allowed under the laws.

It is an interesting, and often submitted idea on these forums.

[mrwslee003]

ahhhhh the creative energy abound!
That is what so special about these F individuals, they can flood you with ideas!

Some good ideas are coming out, of course the skeptics are welcome too.

For those who think that LAWs is a roadblock: was there any LAWs during the cultural revolution? Did they follow the LAWs when they sacked their President
during that time? Do they follow their LAWs to the letter now? My point is, is this country governed by LAWs? Or is it still governed by personality? Isn't there an attitude that whatever works and succeeds in improving the economy becomes the LAW?

Too much buraucracy already? Is it the buraucracy that makes this country
stable? Safe for business to thrive? And the businesses are beginning to move
inland; the inland provinces are getting their chance to be like the coastal areas, with factories and malls.

Another point is not too many Fts are qualified teachers, a good reason for unfulfilled contracts-if the teacher is unable to deliver what he claims he can do, then can't blame the employer for not honouring the contract. Hard to organize a group of incompetents too. No need for an organization either.
Or is there?