Job Discussion Forums

[Glenski]

I am posting this for a friend. He has worked in Japan for the past 10 years as an English teacher and manager in a conversation school, and as a high school/junior high school English teacher.

He is 37, and is married to a Japanese woman and has children, and he is thinking about making plans to return to the USA. He wants to settle in Atlanta.

What qualifications or credentials are necessary for teaching TESL-related courses? He is interested in junior college or university students (or pre-university students) that need to pass TOEFL or that need to improve their English after being accepted.

Also, what is the job market like in Atlanta for this sort of endeavor, and what sort of wages can be expected?

He has a BA degree in management, a certification in teaching TEFL, 7 years of experience at conversation schools, and 3 years at teaching in Japanese high schools/junior high schools.

Thanks in advance.

[chinagirl]

My experience is that for universities here, most want to see a master's degree, but your friend may have luck at community colleges, since he has a lot of experience teaching. I have seen ads that require a bachelor's degree plus a certificate. Private schools would be a safe bet. ( like this one - http://www.eslinstruction.com/Instructors.htm)

http://www.emory.edu/GSOAS/ESL/area.html has a list of Atlanta area ESL providers.

I can't speak for Atlanta specifically, but the wages for teachers of ESL at the adult level seem to be pretty low unless you are in a tenure-track college job. Here at Louisiana State University, the ESL teachers at the Intensive English Program make around 25K. (They are considered staff, not faculty - and they have master's degrees.)

I think with that much experience under his belt, he would be welcomed by many places - but without a master's, it will be hard to break into jobs with good salaries. Has he considered public school certification? He could certainly work at the jr. high and high school level.

I think he might be able to get a provisional certificate as an ESOL teacher while working towards certification.

Or, if not, there is an alternative certification program called Atlanta PLus that places alternative certification candidates in City Schools. http://www.atlantaplus.org/ Be aware that inner city schools are very challenging - but if he was to get his certification in elementary or secondary education, he could later add on an ESL endorsement and be a certified ESL teacher within a few years. Meanwhile, he would be earning $37,000 a year - perhaps higher if the board of ed. would recognise his experience is Japan.

http://www.gapsc.com/ Georgia public school commission web site.

Good luck with the search.

[lucy k]

I will share with you the little bit that I know about Atlanta. I did my MA at Georgia State Univeristy. There they have an Intensive English program. As the last poster mentioned for LSU, GSU also wants instructors to have MA to teach there, and the salary is around $25,000. The program has decreased in size now that it's harder for foreign students to get visas to study in the States, so the last I knew, GSU was only hiring their own MA and PhD students to teach there.

Pulbic schools in Atlanta are always in need of ESL teachers. Specifically in Gwinnett County. The salary is around $37-38,000.

Many graduates of my program at GSU are now working at Georgia Perimeter College (www.gpc.peachnet.edu). They have several locations in Atlanta. The problem is that they mostly only offer part-time positions, which means no benefits and having to find other work. I haven't actually worked in Atlanta since I finished my degree, so perhaps others know better than I, but from what I understand, this situation is common. Teachers end up piecing together various part-time jobs. I think the best bet is the public schools. Their ESL programs are growing quite a bit.

Hope this helps a little! Good luck!

[Capergirl]

[guest of Japan]

That's a Masters degree salary in public education in the US. A BA and an add on cert. in ESL and of course teaching credentials will get you about $33k in most of the east.

[chinagirl]

Guest of Japan,

If you look at the salary schedule you will see that in Atlanta, 37K is the starting salary with a BA. A master's degree will start you at 41,200.
Believe me, as a teacher in an urban school, you earn that money. Plus, there is a higher cost of living in Atlanta that also accounts for this. (A beginning teacher salary in NYC with a BA is somewhere around 41K - but it is also tough to live on that there.)


Capergirl, the reason I am going for my public school credential is the face that it is one of the only opportunities to have steady work at a decent salary as an ESL teacher. There is plenty of work in most parts of the country for ESL teachers who are qualified. The problem is that most EFL teachers who are overseas do not want to go back to school in the U.S. for the extra coursework in order to get their cert. It can be done in a number of ways depending on the state. I'm always surprised when people post messages stating that there is no work for ESL teachers in the US. There most certainly is a need in the public schools - one of my last NEA magazines printed a list of shortage areas in the US, and ESL/Bilingual Ed were very high on the list along with Math, Science and Special Education.


As for the certification, each state in the US has different requirements for their teachers. A master's degree in TESOL will not ususally suffice as a state teaching certification on its own, unless there is a certification component included in the MA. That's why its a good idea to look at the Department of Education website for whatever state you intend to live in - every state is different. For many people who do not have a B.Ed, there are routes to certification at the Master's level in some areas. For others, there are "alternative certification" routes in various school systems, usually urban districts, who have teacher shortages. The problem with this for aspiring ESL teachers is that is in most alt cert programs, ESL is not one of the options - but as I stated in my other post, it is conceivable that one could get a certification as an elementary teacher, secondary English teacher, etc. and later get a state endorsement to teach ESL on the merit of the MATESOL. It's really complicated because EVERY state has DIFFERENT regulations! I am going back to school in NY this fall - I will be working on an MATESOL and K-12 certification in NY, all in one. I'll be able to teach adults and children with this qualification. It's going to take me 45 credits (36 for the regular MA plus student teaching)

[guest of Japan]

Chinagirl, I may be wrong about Atlanta, since I've only checked for Georgia as a whole, but your NYC figure is vastly inflated.

[chinagirl]

Sorry - I was going on what my Dad (retired NYC teacher, 30 years) told me. Here's the link. I don't think "vastly inflated" would be the correct description of my estimate, though.

http://teachny.com/salary_calc.asp

As you can see, a BA would start at 39K in New York City. These are the figures for teachers with NO experience.

BA 39,000
BA + 30 40,294
BA + 60 42,687
MA 43,786
MA + 30 48,573

[guest of Japan]

That's an interesting website. Still those figures are a few thousand higher than those listed on the official NYC payscale. I don't have the link, but I believe you go to NYC Board of Education.

The figure for a BA is actually a mute subject now since NY has changed its certification requirements. Unless you have a very needed subject specialty and a school is willing to sponsor you for emergency certification you cannot get certified anymore without an MA.

What I have failed to mention and so do websites, is that there is always additional opportunity to make money in public education. It is quite conceivable to add 10k to a salary doing coaching or other extra-curricular duties. Evening tutoring is always and option too, as well as summer employment.

A final point I'd like to add is that just by having the requirements does not guarantee a job at the first year salaries mentioned. With the right personality you still may have to spend a couple years resume building. some teachers never land a full time job.

I apologize for the word "vastly."

[guest of Japan]

Oh and I didn't notice before, but experience pays a whole lot more than that website indicates. Those figures represent starting fresh in the NYC public schools. The figures are low because NYC only values your outside NYC experience as half of what it would be inside. A teacher with an MA and 30 years experience in NYC public schools can expect to be earning close to 70k. If the same teacher is on Long Island or in CT, the salary is up around 90k.

[chinagirl]

Guest of Japan,

You are somewhat incorrect when you state:

"The figure for a BA is actually a mute subject now since NY has changed its certification requirements. Unless you have a very needed subject specialty and a school is willing to sponsor you for emergency certification you cannot get certified anymore without an MA."

Actually, in most subject areas you *can* get initial certification with a bachelor's degree, and later you need a master's degree to be professionally certified. You can then apply for professional certification after 2 years as an employed teacher in a public school. One can absolutely start teaching after an appropriate bachelor's with a certification component is completed in NY. There are several routes to becoming a teacher in NY:

1. Get Bachelor's with Initial certification. Teach. Get master's. Get Professional Cert.

2. Get Bachelor's in a non-ed area. Decide you want to teach. Get a master's with Initial certification. Teach. Become Professionally certified after 2 years - you already have the master's.

3. Join an alt. ed. certification program such as Teach For America, or the NY Teaching Fellows. Teach on a special certificate specific to those programs, and work on certification and possibly master's at the same time.

I come from a family of teachers. I grew up in NY, and I attended college there. I will return home in the fall to finish my masters/cert and hopefully be employed in the public schools shortly thereafter. My sister is recently certified, graduated with a B.Ed. in Elementary/Special Ed. and is teaching, right now, without a master's. She is working and has three years to complete a masters for her professional cert. My father put in 30+ years in the NYC system. It is not an easy system to navigate!!!!

[guest of Japan]

That was very well explained chinagirl.

For my own experience, I was a provisionally certified teacher of secondary social studies in NY. My provisional cert lasted for five years with the opportunity to renew it for another five years. During this time I was to obtain a masters as well as jump through a few hoops.

Unfortunately, I was unable to renew my certificate because I am in Japan and they added a two hour course on violence in the school as a requirement for recertification. I was obviously unable to take that course, so my certification expired last month.

I'm not really that concerned however, since I plan to go back for my MA before even considering to teach in public school again.

Thank you for clearing up the current certification track. Since I wasn't researching initial certification I didn't read the details very closely.

[lucy k]

[Capergirl]

Thanks lucy and china girl for the info. I currently have a BA in English lit., a TESL certificate, and almost 4 years' teaching experience. I am also about to complete a certificate in Adult Education (not a degree). I don't know if this would qualify me to teach ESL in the U.S. school system, or in Canada's for that matter, but I am looking into it. Future plans also include an MA TESOL, but with a 4-year-old child to care for, time is limited right now. I thought I'd start it this year but now I'm saying 2005. We'll see.

[lucy k]

Thanks, Capegirl, for the encouraging word and advice on language schools vs. universities. I am planning to check into it further. And don't worry... I won't hold you accountable if they won't take me