Job Discussion Forums

[ugottahaveheart]

Hello,

I have been reading this forum for approximately two years but have not posted before. My children have finally left home, I am divorced and I have been waiting for this time in my life to follow my dreams. I would like to ask members of this board if 47 years of age is too old for a school to hire me to teach? I do not have very much debt and my belongings will be stored so that is not an issue. I am a bit worried that hiring managers will prefer younger teachers and would like to ask all here if they believe this is true?


I have a Master's in Business Administration with a undergraduate degree in psychology. I would like to teach business to adults but I think I will need to start by teaching wherever I can get hired since I have no experience. I think I will need at least one year of teaching experience before I can get an additional certification in business English.

There is a certification program here in Orlando called Oxford Seminars http://www.oxfordseminars.com/index.php and wondered if this would be a good place to get a certification. I think I have read here that there are two very good credentials that are recognized all over the world and I wondered if this school met the criteria in the same way or if I should bite the bullet and save for a trip to London in order to get that best certification possible?

I am willing to teach anywhere I must to get started but would prefer to be as close as possible to Geneva because I have a very dear friend there. I have thought about teaching in Morocco, Spain, Greece, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovenia or any of the Eastern European countries. I am not interested in going to Asia, but I will if I absolutely must in order to gain experience.

While I love cross-cultural interaction, tutored English voluntarily in graduate school 2004- 2006 and loved every minute of it, I don't want to lose my skills in business while I am away teaching and I would like to take some advanced accounting courses at the same time I am teaching. Is this possible? Has anyone here ever gone to school and taught at the same time?

I am sorry to ask you all so many questions but I really need honest advice and would greatly appreciate any and all input from experienced teachers.

Thank you all very much in advance.

Heart

[mozzar]

For someone who has been reading the forum for two years you're asking some questions that must have been answered at least half a dozen times a month since then.

[ugottahaveheart]

Yes, I do realized that I have read similar answers before, but since I have just moved and am surrounded by boxes, my brain seems to have frozen up quite a bit.

I do realize that I won't be able to work in Western Europe until and unless I get can get a job with a company that will sponsor me. If I am able to earn my master's in accounting combined with my MBA and teaching experience I think I may be able to get a work permit in the EU countries based on critical need.

However, to start, I must work in Eastern Europe or one of the countries like Bulgaria, Slovakia or perhaps Greece were I lucky.

I think I most wanted to know how others on the forum feel about my age and hiring practices?

Thank you very much for the information on the Oxford Seminar School. I will look for ways to obtain CELTA, Trinity or SIT.

It is a little bit overwhelming when I try to put all of this in order, but getting rid of house, household items and getting ready to go would likely cause anyone to be a bit discombobulated so please bear with me, I'll get my mind more focused as the order of the operations I must take in order to do this becomes clearer.

Thanks for your answer muzzar.

heart

[TeresaLopez]

I am in Mexico, so I am not sure if my answer applies the world over, but I am in a hiring positions, and I actually prefer older teachers. They tend to be more stable overall, and less likely to hit on students or try to teach class with a terrible hangover. There may be some people who won�t hire you based on your age, but there will be some others that will give you some preference for the same reason, so I suspect it all evens out. Are you considering Latin America at all? It�s a good place to get both training and a first job. With a year�s experience you�ll have a lot more options.

[jpvanderwerf2001]

I agree with the above poster that CELTA, SIT, Trinity make the most sense if you're going to go through the work to get a cert.
Poland, Ukraine, Russia and Czech are probably the closest you'll get to Western Europe in the English teaching game (as an American, that is); actually, Morocco is possible as well.
Your age is not a factor!
Good luck.

[spiral78]

I do realize that I won't be able to work in Western Europe until and unless I get can get a job with a company that will sponsor me. If I am able to earn my master's in accounting combined with my MBA and teaching experience I think I may be able to get a work permit in the EU countries based on critical need.

As an accountant or a teacher? Teaching simply doesn't fall under 'critical need,' regardless of qualifications, unless you happen to have a specialist qual that some school specifically needs.

Consider getting certification in the country where you want to start teaching. This is quite feasible in Central/Eastern Europe - there are CELTA and other reputable programmes offered in many cities (Prague, for example, is a hotbed of training centres).

Training in-country offers you a great chance to get your feet wet in the country/culture while you still have a support system � they usually arrange for your housing during the course, airport pickup, and local orientation. Your practice teaching students will really be representative of those you�ll be working with when you start. You can be sure that your certification will be recognized by local employers, and a training centre can give you invaluable contacts and advice regarding reputable local employers.

[ugottahaveheart]

Thank you! spiral 78, I was hoping that you might take a few minutes of your time to answer me, as you do seem to shoot straight from the hip and tell everyone the truth as well as it can be seen. I think I read that you have obtained an EU work visa due to critical need Am I mistaken?

I love to teach, I love cross-cultural interaction and I love doing accounting and actuarial work. If I had my way, I would teach these subjects and business English, or become a trainer for a private firm doing business in the EU yet needing a person to teach business English to their employees.

With a CPA, MBA, Masters in Accounting and TEFL certification I think I would qualify under "critical need" for Accounting and would have acquired my "adaptability" points by teaching for a number of years in Eastern Europe. I have read that teaching in other locations does not "play' well with the European market.

I do realize that things are very different in both Eastern and Western Europe than in the US. I have quite a number of friends in Greece, Poland, Czech Republic and Switzerland so I've gotten a feel for the person to person relationship development that will be required.

A teaching salary would be quite sufficient for me as I am not a material person nor inclined to go out much and spend a lot of money, but I know I want to continue my education and will need to pay for courses toward my Accounting masters degree.

I wish I could find a way to combine these two more effectively and would love to believe that I could teach these courses, but after I spend a few years teaching and am approaching retirement age, I may want to stay in Europe and settle. It is possible to do this in Denmark or Brussels currently, so if I had to go back to simply working in accounting and teaching because I simply love to do so in my spare time I would probably be very happy.

I say these things because I am a very goal oriented person and know that it is likely that I will want to stay in one place sooner or later and that place may not include the US but may include the EU so I want to be prepared for all contingencies.

I have been looking at the Prague, Spanish and Greek schools. I would love to attend them, but find it hard to determine if they are offering the coveted Trinity, CELTA or SIT certifications.

I admit to being slightly intimidated by the thought of simply packing up and moving without a contract as a beginner. It can be a little overwhelming.

[ugottahaveheart]

[ugottahaveheart]

[ugottahaveheart]

May I please ask -- If The Czech Republic and Poland are members of the EU, then how can they employ me there if I attend CELTA classes there since I do not have a EU work permit? How is Spain and Greece getting away with the same thing?

Also, does anyone know if tax preparation for ex-pats is a decent side business while teaching in countries such as the above mentioned?

[Sashadroogie]

EU countries don't generally employ non-EU citizens. Have a look at some links to Schengen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

Some eastern countries are a bit slower to fully implement all aspects of the Schengen agreement, so Czech Rep or Poland mat still be an option, though that will change soon enough.

Spain and Greece? Not legally I'm afraid...

[denise]

From your post, it sounds like you're thinking primarily in terms of geography to visit your friend in Geneva. You might want to expand a bit--at least look into the better-paying countries in Asia, for example--because if you're working at a low-paying private language institute somewhere in Eastern Europe, taking trips to Switzerland might be a bit expensive. Also look into how much holiday time different schools in different countries give you. Holidays + a higher salary might make it easier for you to visit your friend. (Of course, if you find something equivalent in Europe, by all means, take it!!)

Your age shouldn't be a factor--but keep in mind that, at least for your first job, while you're building up your qualifications, you may be surrounded by the 20-something party-going crowd. I get the impression that you can handle yourself, though...

d

[spiral78]

because if you're working at a low-paying private language institute somewhere in Eastern Europe, taking trips to Switzerland might be a bit expensive.

Denise is right about this - teaching jobs in Central/Eastern Europe pay subsistence wages - buying a pair of jeans takes some advance planning and a trip to Switzerland would likely be a once (or maybe twice) a year event, maximum, assuming you live frugally.

May I please ask -- If The Czech Republic and Poland are members of the EU, then how can they employ me there if I attend CELTA classes there since I do not have a EU work permit? How is Spain and Greece getting away with the same thing?

The laws vary by country. The basic situation is that, where there are enough UK teachers to fill the needs, non-EU member citizens are not legally employable. Western European countries have tended over the years to be more attractive to UK teachers - and the 'overflow' Yanks and etc filled something of a gap in the newer EU member states. As Sasha points out, this is beginning to change rapidly, with a shrinking job market making competition tougher. Read the current threads on the Czech Rep forum for more (current) info on the situation for non-EU teachers just now.
In the past, many non-EU teachers taught illegally. You automatically get 90 days on a tourist visa, and until Jan 2009 a simple border run to get a new stamp was sufficient to keep one (at least marginally) legal. The new Schengen zone laws require you to STAY OUT OF THE ENTIRE ZONE FOR 90 DAYS to re-start your 90 days as a tourist (google Schengen zone for a list of countries). Therefore, the popular teaching kinda illegally on a tourist visa loophole was closed.

Also, does anyone know if tax preparation for ex-pats is a decent side business while teaching in countries such as the above mentioned?

US citizens who make less than the equivalent of 80,ooo USD per year don't have to pay taxes on foreign income anyway. I doubt you'd find too many expats in need of services....certainly not among your fellow teachers, at least!!
Obviously you wouldn't have the local language to work with people on their local taxes.

I think I read that you have obtained an EU work visa due to critical need Am I mistaken?

You're mistaken. There is no critical need visa for English teachers - in fact, we are specifically on the list as 'not eligible' for this in most Western European countries. I teach on a 'specialist' visa - meaning that I have specific qualifications that no EU candidates for my job possessed. Ialso had local contacts here who were familiar with my work and who were willing to jump through the legal hoops to get me.

I think that, realistically, you have a couple of courses of possible action:

1. Come to Central Europe and take a course, pay your dues starting out, and hope to find some niche that will work for you. It's a bit of a long shot, and requires up-front costs as jobs are not normally found from abroad. If you think you might want to do this, read through the current threads on the Czech Rep and Poland forums - particularly the excellent Chris Westergard...field (sorry, man, forgot the last half of your name!) about getting a first job in the region.

2. Consider Asia. As others have pointed out, the money and benefits are FAR better for newbies.

[naturegirl321]

US taxes have been up to 90Ksomething and I don't know many teachers who make that much. However, you have to fulfill the reqs to qualify to file the 2555. Look and see if you do before you file

[ugottahaveheart]

It is odd to find yourself having raised children and suddenly released from all of your obligations, with a strong and unyielding desire to do the impossible.

I do not know how to pursue both my dream of teaching while retaining and improving my business skill set, such that, after a few years of teaching I can then pursue the other dream of settling in Western Europe (Brussels, Denmark, France or Switzerland).

My train of logic is that I must follow something similar to the Danish point system. Europe still needs professionals in many fields and will issue work visas for master level accounting or actuaries but you must have connections in order to properly pursue this avenue. In any event, the point system also requires you to prove you can adapt to a foreign environment. These are the points I am lacking and I very much want to know for myself if I can adapt. Which is one (only one) reason I believe teaching in Eastern Europe would be a good idea.

If I were to take a subsistence position in one of the countries mentioned above, and the working conditions were right, I don't even know if I would ever want to stop teaching. I may never want to go back into the field of business. I have to try it so that I can find out.

I also have friends in Croatia, Prague, Greece and Poland so I find it more acceptable to try to find a teaching position near those areas. It would be nice to see my friend in Geneva but not necessary more than once in a years time. I suspect the few friends I have would probably come to see me or meet me half way if it was an issue. The real issue for me is to be able to see for myself whether I really want to live in Europe. I will not be able to find out if I am not ever there long enough to let the "wow" effect wear off. Does that make sense?

Getting a job in the EU countries is not impossible, but it is daunting!!! I will never get a work visa based on critical need as a teacher. It is possible to get a work visa as an international accountant, or an actuary. I simply have to maintain and improve my skill set while I'm there.

I guess that means I'll be a pretty boring person around those 20 somethings.

I hope that explains why I wish to find a position in Eastern Europe or one of the recently ascended or candidate countries. I have tried to find the best path toward my goal as possible while keeping my options open.

Worst case: I go to Eastern Europe and teach, find I do not like it there, spend a few months in Western Europe after the contract and find I do not like it there or cannot find work and come back to the US.

Best case: I go to teach, find I love it, and don't want to stop teaching there.

Or, I go to teach, find I do like it but want to find a way to settle inside the EU so I must find a "business" position through contacts I can make and credentials I have (including the adaptation points I would earn for teaching) and figure out which country is easiest and which is "right" for me and start the procedures to jump through the hoops to work and perhaps gain naturalization in the EU.

Sometimes you have to answer to yourself in the mirror and you cannot allow yourself to say that you didn't try the best and most logical route that you could find. I've never been a person to give up easily, so I suppose I have to roll the dice and find out if this is for me, and go from there.

I was looking at The Boland School, even though someone had remarked that they may not hire a person on after the completion of their course unless they have two years experience. It will get me close enough to do some networking-- but without that CELTA, Trinity or SIT I'm not sure.