Job Discussion Forums

refazenda · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:09 pm Post subject: Husband and baby make three

How common is it for teachers to bring their families? How common is it for the husband to be the stay-at-home of the group? Also, what would be a livable salary for a family not living in Tokyo? We are vegetarian and live frugally, but we would like to put a little money aside.

Thanks!

Refazenda

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

How old is your child? Living costs here include the same things they would back home, but schooling costs are pretty high, and daycare centers are almost nonexistent in many places.

Speaking as a father, I would have to say that 300,000 to 350,000 yen/month is pretty much the lowest a family of 3 can survive on until the child becomes old enough to attend daycare or any type of schooling.

refazenda · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:47 pm Post subject: Husband and baby make three

Our child is six months old.

Does that figure (300-350,000) include paying for your own housing? How much is a one or two bedroom apartment outside of Tokyo?

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Yes, it includes housing. Don't expect an employer to pay for it. Wink

Apartments rent for 70,000 to 100,000 yen/month, depending on location and amenities. I have a 2LDK in Sapporo and pay 70,000, which includes parking but nothing else. Realize, too, that if you get your own housing instead of living in employer-sponsored apartments, you will have to pay key money up front before you move in. That can amount to 2-5 times one month's rent. Unfurnished apartments are VERY unfurnished. No light fixtures, no refrigerator or stove, no washing machine, no curtains, no heater. These last 2 facts are reasons why many people take company housing, at least at first. And, stoves are usually not what you would consider back home. Picture a 2-burner camping gas stove with a tiny drawer for grilling fish. That's standard. Look at these pictures for ideas on what apartments (for singles, anyway) are like.
www.markinjapan.ca/features/apartment/index.htm
http://vocaro.com/trevor/japan/home/index.html
http://ekhardt.com/tokyo/myapartment/Iapartment.html
http://www.tiger-marmalade.com/gallery/apartment
http://www.collin.org/travel/japan/apartment/apartment.html
http://www.globalcompassion.com/home.htm
http://www.greggman.com/japan/apts/tokyo%20apts.htm
http://daveahlman.com/arch/arch_apt.htm
http://chaninjapan.utopiades.com/Information/Apartment.htm

Here are some sites that describe housing terminology that you may run into.
http://jafnet.co.jp/manual/e.chintai/migigawa/epoint.htm
http://www.himeji-iec.or.jp/life/b_08/index_en.html
http://www.pref.nara.jp/silk/icd/h_english/2_04_e.html
http://www.geocities.com/indiansinjapan/living-in-japan/life-3.html
http://www.jobmonkey.com/teaching/asia/html/long_stay.html
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2207.html
http://jafnet.co.jp/manual/chintai/migigawa/apart.htm

Celeste · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:17 pm Post subject:

Here in Fukuoka, we have a family of 4 on the JET programme. The mom works as a JET ALT, one kid is 3 years old, and the other was born a few months ago (mid JET contract). The dad stays home with the little ones, and the 3 year old attends a local preschool for part of the day. They are doing well here and have signed on to the JET programme for another year. Previously, we had another family on the JET programme for 2 years in Fukuoka as well. (The dad worked for JET, and the mom stayed home with their toddler)

april · Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 83 Location: Australia

That's so cool!! I really love hearing stories about people not only travelling, but living overseas after they get married and have kids. My friends seem to think that after getting engaged the overseas travel stops at the honeymoon. When they tell me I am lucky that I am still 'free' to do these things I say that they can also still do them if they like, but it'll just take a lot more organising and a little more stress. But it's do-able.

refazenda - stay-at-home dads are not common at all in Japan. In fact, whenever I broached the subject with my students they all thought it was really weird. Japan is old-fashioned this way, think 1950's. That being said, you are a foreigner so it won't make any difference. Your husband will probably be treated just like any other foreigner but just expect him to get a lot of confused looks and many questions when he mentions he is a stay-at-home dad to anyone.

I really hope it works out for you!

TokyoLiz · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1548 Location: Tokyo, Japan

April, you're right, it isn't common to see house dads. But you'd be surprised at the number of homemaker dads in Japan. In my little town in Ehime, there were a half-dozen stay at home dads who worked part time and shared childcare duties with their wives, who also worked part time. It was so cute, seeing these manly men go down to the zakkaya in their aprons with babies in tow. Only one of the guys was foreign.

In the same town, there was a small band of teenage single mothers. I was told that at first, they were held in contempt, but as the girls and their babies grew, so did the locals' admiration for their courage to stay in the town and eke out a living.

Japan is so full of contradictions, isn't it?

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

It seems we were in the same boat. I brought my family to Japan when my daughter was 7 months old. That was over 1.5 years ago. It's doable if you have a good salary. One of you can also do some p/t teaching in the evenings too, which will help a lot. A dependent visa will allow your spouse to make 1.2 million yen/yr tax free. PM me with any specific questions, but I won't be able to answer you properly for a couple more weeks as I'm on holidays in the Philippines now.
Not a lot of stay at home dads, but that's OK.

refazenda · Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:50 pm Post subject: Update - any suggestions?

I have an update - I was offered a contract with housing! The salary is in the range mentioned above. This is my first job abroad, so maybe I am being anal, but this is the second time I've received a contract that is not written properly. In one section, the section and number which is referenced is missing; ohter similar type mistakes are in this contract as well.

Then there is the issue of salary. Can it be negotiated? If you are offered a termination bonus can you simply ask that it be added to your salary instead? Finally, this offer was from an agency, and they state their placement fee is 1/4 of one month's salary. Is that reasonable? Standard? Should I keep looking?

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far! I've been on this board off and on for several years now, and think it's a great place. My only regret is that I did not take a job abroad before now.

Refazenda

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Mistakes in contracts are not unusual since they are often written by Japanese people. I actually do the editing for my current companies contracts. It was strange when I did my recent renewal because I had helped to write about half of the contract beforehand.

Paying placement fees is not usual in Japan. Usually the school pays for the service. I'm not going to say it is incredibly outrageous because I've had teacher placement services in the states request more than your agency is charging you.

The salary you mention plus accommodation sounds very good.

You cannot negotiate a contract completion bonus. In fact all contract negotiations are damned near impossible in this country. It's simply a choice of yes or no.

No one has mentioned anything yet, but I believe you also get head of household credit. I think someone like Glenski, Gordon, or PaulH can give more info on this, since they have children.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

I doubt seriously whether you can negotiate to have that bonus added to your salary. Many companies offer an end-of-contract bonus equivalent to airfare as an incentive not to bail out early on a contract.

To say that they offered you a contract "with housing" means exactly what? Lots of employers list "housing provided", but that only means that they FIND the housing for you, or that they SET UP the apartment and its furnishings for you. It doesn't mean that they pay your rent. Do you know what is the case with yours?

refazenda · Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 1:34 am Post subject: Housing et al

The bonus is equivalent to one month's salary.

I am one step ahead of you on the housing front! Since I have other questions on the contract, I also asked specifically if the housing is paid for. By the way, I don't think the person writing the contract is Japanese; at least they don't have a Japanese name.

Will let you know how it goes.