Job Discussion Forums

[Phil_K]

How much of this applies to your Mexican students? What do you do to overcome these problems? There are some culture-based problems mentioned here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i2QplltQes

[gregd75]

OK. First of all- if this guys classes are like his podcast, then I'm not surprised that he's has issues motivating his students.

A teacher has to have many 'hats'; coach, guide, administrator, manager, motivator etc. I didn't think this video inspired nor motivated.

One thing that wasn't mentioned is if the students are being TOLD to go to class or if they WANT to go to class. Very different.

These were the issues I picked up;
1. Students don't do homework- when this is the case, especially in business classes- then don't give them homework.
2. Students give up pretty quickly. True, but we, as reflective teachers need to think about what we did in our class and if what we did didnt work, then we need to think of a different way to deal with the same problem.
3. Some students pick things up with just 5 words and others are taught 1,000 words and still can't do anything with the language. This shouts 'learning styles' Auditory, visual kinesthetic- one style of teaching certainly doesnt fit all
4. Some students don't like to talk, especially with their boss in the group. I wouldn't like to talk in that situation either. Again we don't know how this has been addressed, but some classroom rules should be set up (i.e the boss saying and emphasizing in the class that they are all students together)

Do I experience the same problems? SURE.

Are they real issues? SURELY NOT.

I guess it depends on how passionate you are about teaching...

[Dragonlady]

deleted

[gregd75]

Sorry Dragonlady, but you're wrong. This teacher is not reflecting. He is venting his thoughts, and no more.

Reflection has stages and is structured. Cooper (2006) suggests that reflective teachers will:
- Reflect and learn from experiences
- Engage in ongoing review & ask for feedback
- Actively look for alternative options & perspectives for students learning
- Seek to discover new ways, new teaching methods and best practices

Reflection involves asking oneself three questions (of course they will be worded differently with different teachers- but the three ideas are the same)
1. What went well in the class?
2. What didn't go well in the class?
3. What could I do differently to facilitate student learning?

The teacher talks about the first two, but doesn't deal with how he would do things differently. He's not reflecting and really, the third question is the most important part of reflection- to make your classes more effective.

As for the original question- I stick to my guns and re-emphasise that the issues that are discussed are valid here for Mexico but its the INDIVIDUAL TEACHERS use of their different 'hats' and teaching strategies (including reflection) that will solve the problems discussed.

Students are changing, we teachers need to adapt

[al capone]

i just marked written assignment for Uni class

i thought their standard of Englsih was astounding good so i wrote in the first line of their essays in search engine


bang...wikipedia,biography.com...even essay website

totally verbatim

what can you do??

[gregd75]

How about ask them what can you do?

I imagine that you set out class rules for this course and they know this is unacceptable behaviour?

I remember that when I was at university. I had to write essays and I hated it. Maybe you could think of different methods of assessment.

Use moodle. Use a project based assessment. Set them up to succeed. Don't give them the chance to copy things verbatim.

Give an assignment that engages them.

[Insubordination]

I'm not in Mexico, but I often catch 'em. I just print the plagiarised website (first page only) and highlight a few sentences which are the same. I then staple it to their assignment and return it. I tell them why it's not acceptable and ask them if they need help on avoiding plagiarism (it's not always from laziness, sometimes they lack confidence or writing skills).

[thelmadatter]

Behind most of what has been written on this thread is the idea that if students fail or even cheat(!) then it is somehow the teacher's fault.

What... a... crock

You can pander to your students all you want, but you do them no good when they are out in the real world and hit the wall flat because no one prepared them.

[gregd75]

[gregd75]

Which reminds me. I know of a very experienced and well respected teacher and he told me that he never fails his students.

They all come into the class on the first day and he tells them that they will all pass. Then he points out they will pas with a 6 (or whatever the absolute minimum pass rate is at the institution). THEN, if the students want to learn, then they will need to put in some effort in order to get a reasonable grade.

The students who aren't motivated and really don't want to be there are never going to change. The teacher gives them a pass mark and they are happy.

I mean... why are we teaching? So that students can effectively use English or for students to pass exams?

Many students would prefer to fail than to receive a bare minimum pass because with a fail they can re-take the subject etc.

Let's move away from the idea of lazy students. Lets engage in what we can do about this. My solution would be to pass all of your students with the bare minimum grade and the ones that really want to achieve are allowed to do so.

Why bother copying essays etc if they know they're going to pass? This effectively cuts out the problems discussed by Madrid teacher. Oh unless the students are studying because they want to communicate effectively. Then its a whole different story.

[leslie]

Greg,

I think you are agreeing with Madrid Teacher who is saying that the teacher needs to adapt to the students (and not vice versa), and try to engage the students or change something about the class in order to try and help the student learn even if they don't have time to study or are too tired or not motivated or whatever.

Also, I'm not so critical of Madrid Teacher because he seems to be trying to analyse the situation, and then adapt. It's a process, is it not? And maybe he will reject some of his analysis and say, "no, that's not really the problem", or maybe he'll decide, "yeah, I think that is the problem." Now, I have to adapt and try and help my students learn.

I think you have to take anyone's posts or videos with a grain of salt. I'm sure there is more to everyone's thoughts than what they put on the internet. However, it's brave to put yourself out there like that.

[Phil_K]

I agree with BOTH the previous posters on some points. Michel Thomas said there is no such thing as a bad student, only a bad teacher. This is patently not true. A student who really wants to learn will learn in spite of the teacher, although obviously he will learn better with a better teacher.

The comment about students not being the same as 10 years ago sadly reflects the "dumbing down" that prevails in the British education system now, although I do agree with the poster about exams. I took my GCE O-level (as they were called then) exams over 30 years ago and passed most of them admirably without any revision at all. How? Because even then I had the attitude that if I didn't know the subject, I didn't deserve the pass. Those that I did badly in were those in subjects that didn't interest me. That says something, doesn't it?

Perhaps the best way to assess English students would be to secretly grade a conversation class. That would be a true indication of their progress and ability.

[gregd75]

In the previous post, Phil_k, you talk about students being able to succeed even if the teacher is bad- but these are the highly motivated students. We are discussing the students who are not motivated or engaged.

This is where I agree with the comment about there only being bad teachers. No student goes into a classroom wanting to fail- but many students end up failing because they haven't engaged in the learning process (this is the failure of the teacher to spot the issue and to change their lessons, their teaching style, or their examination methods)

As for students changing, yes its partly because of the dumbing down of education, but its so much more complex than that. There are so many more pressures on students these days- the world is faster, information is hitting us at a faster rate, the pressure to succeed, the pressure to be productive.

So much more. All I am saying is that I would have preferred Madridteacher to talk about the problems AND the solutions.

Secretly grading a conversation class would, by the way, only be successful if the students are coming to class with the intention of learning to communicate effectively in English. If they are coming to class simply to pass their mandatory English exam, then I imagine this would not work.

Don't give homework if the students don't do it, or explain that you'll make a deal- you'll only give 5 to 10 minutes of homework each class which will serve to re-inforce what was learned in the class as opposed to 'extending' the lesson by giving quantities of homework. Seems a fair deal to me... students get to understand why exactly you are issuing homework.

This brings us to another potential solution to the problem of getting our students to learn- right at the outset, at the very beginning of the course we teachers should find out why our students are sat there in front of us!

[mejms]

[aliaeli]

What a bore. I was trying to click ahead but my compy couldn't download fast enough.
I got to the part "I think they are burnt out". And I just thought, "no, you are burnt out".

He is indeed REFLECTING, but not in the way he should be. He is reflecting his feelings on to them.