Job Discussion Forums

[BrightonChris]

Hi everyone,

I'm planning on travelling out to Asia in Feb 2011, but trying to work out the best place to go first.. I've heard about Shanghai being a great place to work as there's so much going on and so easy to travel to other parts of the country during time off etc. I'm planning on taking a TESOL and have am interested in Tefl International as they do a course in Hangzhou.
I'm wondering how much roughly it's possible to save working in Shanghai though.. ideally in my first yr of teaching I'd like to clear my debts (�2,500) and hopefully save a few grand (�) on top.. I know this would probably be possible in S.Korea but China's more appealing to me.. if anyone could give me any advice on whether this would be possible in Shanghai (and the chances of getting a decent enough paid job etc) it'd be very appreciated!!

Chris.

[Laurence]

Hi Chris,

This board receives inquiries just like yours, but for different cities, every week. If you want numbers, it would probably be helpful if you gave as much information about yourself as possible:
- teaching experience
- degree and discipline
- language skills
- appearance
- your own typical lifestyle preferences (your expenses will be double or more if you're a drinker)
- and anything else you think might be relevant.


I mean,
Salary ranges from placements that you actually have to pay to do (!) all the way up to RMB30000pcm @ the likes of Dulwich college.

[Zero]

You mentioned Shanghai being a great place to work because of the many things going on and the ease of travel. Fair enough. But those activities cost a fair amount, and regular living costs in Shanghai are high on top of that. Yet you want to save money. Sorry, but I think your goals are at odds with each other. On an ESL teacher's salary, you will not accomplish all of your goals in Shanghai.

You might be able to save money in Shanghai, but you'll need to live a pretty spartan lifestyle.

[BrightonChris]

Thanks for your responses guys..

Laurence.. sorry, I didn't really give much insight into my background .. I have a Masters in Social Work (following a MSc in Human&Urban Geography- both unrelated i know) but getting very fed up with the recession and mess the public sector is in the UK what with imminent cuts, hence I've decided to give Tefl teaching a go, something I've considered on and off for years. I've done a fair bit of travelling and worked with kids in summer-camps in the US as well as Russia (two VERY different experiences!!), I taught English in Russia but it was very informal and i was only there 2 months, so I'll be a newby, but I am planning to gain a TESOL certificate first through the company I mentioned as I don't feel comfortable just stepping into a job without training, plus I hope to be able to gain a better paid job with one.

I'm an average drinker for a 26yr old I guess, out about once a week, im by no means a heavy drinker though. I'd like to be able to travel to other parts of the country perhaps 3 times in a yr's stay. On second thoughts maybe my goal should be simply clearing my debts in the first yr's teaching, which would mean saving about 26,000rmb. From looking at various job sites I'd hope to be able to earn around 8000-10000 per month, so I guess that'd mean saving about 2,100 odd of that.

Zero - perhaps I do need to give more thought as to my priorities.. Maybe I shouldn't worry so much about saving and get out there and if I manage to save great, if not go somewhere like Japan after a yr where I understand it is possible to save a good deal!!

Thanks again for both your responses.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Zero is right insofar as Shanghai is more expensive than other places in China. But I've done a lot of cost comparisons lately, and it may just be that I am in an expensive city because I am finding the prices for beef, fast food, clothes, etc. around the same as Shanghai and Beijing as they are here in my small little city. Mind you, I can communicate in Chinese so I have that advantage. I negotiate everything, even the final bill at restaurants. But it depends on how you are planning to live. Cook for yourself, or eat out all the time? For me, I eat out once a week. I do a lot of cooking, food storing, pickling, etc. Yes, I make dill pickles, as I can't stand paying 25 RMB a jar for unpleasant tasting dills. 1 RMB a jar seems a bit more reasonable.

Off-topic again, sorry.

It depends on what you plan on doing. I'm not sure what your ideal model of 'fun things to do' is, but it strikes me that paying off your debt seems a priority.

I did South Korea for 4ish years. You might want to consider doing a year in South Korea, and THEN doing a year in China. I did the 'airplane landing' approach to it-- kind of weened myself into China. First taught in in Japan, then South Korea, Taiwan, and now finally China. I'm still entertaining the idea of going further (Mongolia) but not comfortable with that just yet.

See, I'm wandering off-topic again. This is what happens as you get old.

Anyways, yea. You might want to look at South Korea. I liked it because they normally pay up-front for your airplane ticket (or at least they did for me and my friends), and English is far more widely used. I'd avoid smaller places in China is money is your concern. Generally speaking, in China you get a 'smaller piece of the pie' than you would in South Korea. For private schools, In South Korea I earned about 10%ish of the profits, while in China it's usually 2-3% of the profits. If that.

Final words: Don't settle for a small salary. Some here defend small salaries, but don't let schools take advantage of you, public nor private.

Good luck.

[Zero]

I'll tell you what I'd do. I would focus on paying off the debt. Being in debt is servitude. Everything will be so much better once it is paid off. The freedom will be wonderful. Beyond that I would focus on saving. The decade of your 20s is the best time. The money will have lots of time to grow. Also, some expensive phases are likely to be coming around the corner. Marriage and kids and cars and home ownership etc. A good savings account will prevent you from going into debt. If that stuff isn't on your horizon, all the better: You'll have all that lovely dirty money for yourself.

Also, as a western man heading for Asia, it's not impossible that you would get ensnared by a local female. The person will want you to have a flush bank account. And she'll want you to continue a saving habit. To women in China, if you are working and not saving, you are not really living, just existing. You aren't getting ahead. How depressing!

I'd buckle down for a year. Could be in China, but you'll need two jobs. Could be in Korea. I personally would choose China, but that's just personal preference. I wouldn't go to clubs or bars much, if at all. China does not really have a pub culture like the UK. There are some pub-like places, but it's not the same. China has its own pleasures. Most of them are not enhanced by drinking. If you need alcohol, I'd buy it at the supermarket and drink it at home with some friends. Beer can be extremely cheap. I would explore my local area and do daytrips, but I would not spend much, if anything, on more extended travel.

The simple life. Simple but good!

[7969]

[rogerwilco]

[7969]

[Laurence]

ok - an unrelated MA and a smattering of experience.
Not the worst applicant imaginable : )

Assuming you find an employer who is willing to waive the two years of experience that is normally required to get a work visa (possible, especially since you have a post-graduate degree), and you get a job paying RMB10 000 per month in SH:

- 1k tax
- 3k house
- 2k saving

4k left over for spending on yourself - that would allow you the odd night out, maybe join a sports group or two, but you would be restricted.

It's worth noting that you wouldn't have much money for any major purchases (plane tickets, medical care, new toys). If you are used to living like a student though, then this might not be too much of a stretch.

Also, factor in your relocation/startup costs. Need a deposit for an apartment? Three months' rent in advance? I just put down RMB10 000 for those, and that was cheap for this neck of the woods. And I don't even live in blingbling SH.
Also, your flight reimbursement - you'll likely be looking at employment more than a month after arrival. Don't expect your full ticket to be covered as an 'in-country hire' - an allowance is more likely, to be paid at the end of the contract.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[nickpellatt]

Hi Chris .... your debts should be easy enough to service ... roughly �100 a month right? Thats 1000RMB per month and I reckon its pretty easy to save that no matter what job you have. It might not be easy to transfer money back to the UK if the debt has to be paid via DD though...thats something to consider.

Ill make a suggestion to save more money too. If you are actually in Brighton, do your course there with St Giles. I did my course with St Giles in Eastbourne and recommend St Giles highly. Plus, doing the course locally makes it a lot less stressfull, a lot easier, and will allow you to make local contacts at home meaning finding EFL work in the UK is easier. The course experience can be difficult for some people and I reckon doing it at home is the sensible thing to do, even more for you as it should allow you to save some money.

Consider places other than Shanghai too. I often see posts about rental costs in Shanghai, which indicates fewer jobs there offer accomodation as part of the package. I wouldnt like that TBH.

I think you can easily enjoy life in China though. If you are looking at a short term adventure and DONT need to make plans or provide for a Chinese wife etc, money can go a long way. Travel is also very accessible, and sometimes you may find that visiting smaller places off the tourist trail can be as rewarding as joining the hordes visiting all the usual places. Everything in China is going to be new and exciting, so travel plans dont have to be super expensive ones to see the famous places. You may find trips to local places of interest will prove just as much fun and a lot cheaper.

And you think the public sector in the UK is messy??? Wait until you enter EFL my friend, prepare for a whole new world of messy.

[BrightonChris]

Zero- Yea I think I definitely need to focus simply on clearing debt firstly rather than saving on top of that. I have been pretty focused on beginning in China, for two reasons really- the country has always fascinated me, and I've a good friend going out there at a similar time I want to. Thinking ahead- I've Japanese friends studying here in England, so I'd very much like to do a year or two there- where from all I've read it seems a lot easier to save money (Great Wall of Whiner- if you could confirm/refute this that�d be great- it�s very hard knowing what to believe trawling the internet! And also, no I won�t settle for a small salary!). It seems I might need to give getting a local girlfriend a miss for a while though if Chinese girls are very concerned with their partners cashflow!!

Nickpellat- thanks for the advice re St Giles, I�ll definitely look into it, I just assumed through all the info I�ve read that it�d be better to do it in the country I plan to begin teaching in. And yea, I definitely need to look into transferring money back to UK. Re the tefl industry being a mess... at least there�s jobs there though! For newly qualified s.workers with limited previous experience, it�s a grim time to be going into the profession!!

Laurence- thanks for the breakdown, very helpful- I hadn�t really considered starting up costs like 3 months rent in advance, etc. I should be ok to begin with though, I�m planning to sell my car and afew other things I don�t really need anymore to get myself out there and get myself set up. And I�m very much used to living like a student, so that should work to my benefit also!

It�s very complicated working everything out. I�m getting there though, and at the same time it�s all quite exciting. All your responses have been great!! [/b]

[nickpellatt]

You can check course dates with St Giles and I went in to see them and watched a lesson before I took my course with them. I live in Eastbourne, and so did my course at their school there. This meant I didnt incur any extra costs and had the comfort of living at home whilst doing the course work. This was an issue for some of my peers and would be even worse if you did it in China. The course workload is intensive, so doing it at home is much easier. Arriving in China, having jetlag, wanting to explore etc ... it would just be a nightmare to cope with a course workload IMO.

The other issue is if you are already in China, you may have visa issues if you then find a job. Although there are exceptions, obtaining a visa whilst in country can be problematic. The market in China isnt as competitive as some, and many jobs can be found whilst you are still at home. The advantage of doing the course in country is minimised in China because of this.

Do look for jobs that include accomodation. Reduces your start up costs massively. I think I arrived in my last job with just �500 in hard cash and that saw me through the first 6 weeks until wages started. Bear in mind I did have a credit card to get home just incase things went wrong though!

One final point, once you have the TEFL cert, there is lots of work around when you live on the South Coast, so if China doesnt work out right now, you can get your feet wet easily enough from Easter onwards next year, then when you do get the first China job, you will have some experience under your belt too.