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vaughnyb
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 39
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 Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:19 pm Post subject: Teaching in Shenzhen without a Z visa, possible? |
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Hello All:
I am interested in teaching part-time in Shenzen, business english. I have 3 years experience and am without a tefl cert. (If I need one Ill do i-to-i online, no prblem)
My question is this: I do not want to get a work visa (Z visa) because I already have a income and maintaning my present income depends on not legally working.
Is it possible to teach eglish in Shenzen or Hong Kong just on a tourist visa or maybe on some other kind of visa. Remember i cant 'legally' be employed, ill get in trouble.
Thanks |
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JamesD
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 934
Location: "As far as I'm concerned bacon comes from a magical happy place."
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:52 am Post subject: |
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I removed my post and will (partially) concede that it was in part improper. I can only plead being in a foul mood after a long day.
However, I cannot withdraw my opinion that anyone in an open forum requesting advice on engaging in illegal activity is fair game. I think that most of us would have a dim view of foreign workers who came to our home countries and asked the same questions.
"...maintaning my present income depends on not legally working."
If this isn't trolling you could sure give lessons.
There are many rules and laws here that I do not agree with, but that doesn't mean I can pick and choose which I will follow.
And I will not apologize for the remarks about your spelling.
Last edited by JamesD on Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vaughnyb
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| JamesD wrote: |
Hey everybody! It's time to play "Spot the Troll"!!!!!!
While you're waiting to cast your vote, please let me have your opinion on MY situation.
I kaint spell so gud. cans i teacha da eglish?
I wants to move to anudder cuntry but donesn't want to follow theer lawz. is that ok?? |
Its people like you that destroy good forums like this, iff you have nothng nice to say leave the negative thoughts to yourself please! |
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80daze
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 118
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:53 am Post subject: |
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The simple reality is that most posters on this forum spend time advising people to get work visa's before commencing employment because if you are caught the consequences are you'll be either heavily fined, deported, blacklisted on a provincial level or possibly a national level (never work in China again!) or all of them!
You want to know if you can work illegally in China - if you want to break the law that's a matter for you but be aware of the consequences if you are caught!
I wouldn't advise it myself! |
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nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| There is a recent thread suggesting police have been raiding a kindy in SZ checking visas. Your idea sounds like a bad one. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| Its people like you that destroy good forums like this |
The pot calling the kettle black. You're asking people to help you break international law. |
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ForeignTrainer
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Perrrrrleeeeeeeeaaase, can we not get into all this discussion about legal and illegal. Teaching without a work permit is acceptable sometimes, some places, some employers, some situations. In some towns it's the norm.. I don't recommend it but it's what happens on the ground.
No-one here is a Chinese lawyer, and even if they were, they would be hard pushed to be definite about this.
OP, yes, of course you can work in SZ without it. Along with most FTs in SZ. But you take a risk.
Let's please have practical advice here, not attitude.
There are many schools and training centres in SZ. The only one that I have ever come across that won't allow you near the students without a work permit is WSE (WSI) in other countries. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Does the OP mean "May I work?" or "Can I work?"
I am with JamesD. |
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DixieCat
Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| present income depends on not legally working. |
Necessity is often what defines what is acceptable.
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| No-one here is a Chinese lawyer, and even if they were, they would be hard pushed to be definite about this |
True dat, and one of the most articulate statements to grace this board.
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| You're asking people to help you break international law. |
Hardly, this post concerns Chinese Visa Regulations and the poster is asking for opinions and not aid in commission of a conspiracy.
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There is a recent thread suggesting police have been raiding a kindy in SZ checking visas.
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Funny how those threads seem to pop up and as you say suggest a problem only to be quickly jumped on by those with an agenda to control the market. One thing I noted on that particulate post was the op never stated what the two FTs were question about. Without clarification and without the support of additional post to define the problem as a violation of visa policy, many will assume that this is a current trend of Law enforcement, when I have witness the exact opposite in Beijing.
| Quote: |
| if you are caught the consequences are you'll be either heavily fined, deported, blacklisted on a provincial level or possibly a national level (never work in China again!) or all of them! |
While all of this is a possibility, it is hardly proven by testimonial on these pages.
| Quote: |
| think that most of us would have a dim view of foreign workers who came to our home countries and asked the same questions. |
Again, this is not what has come to light in these times as massive protest to protect unlicensed workers have taken a very public stance in many countries and in fact many industries were built on illegal workers while government turned away. The other side of the coin is attacks on non native workers are often defined as racist in western countries.
The simple answer to the "OP's ?" is yes it is possible but it is at your own risk. The flip side is that even if a FT thinks he is working legally, it is never sure as even the most protected documents can be bootlegged or bought which would make them invalid.
Last edited by DixieCat on Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bradley
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 235
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| It's possible, but I would not recommend it |
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nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Quote:
There is a recent thread suggesting police have been raiding a kindy in SZ checking visas.
Funny how those threads seem to pop up and as you say suggest a problem only to be quickly jumped on by those with an agenda to control the market. One thing I noted on that particulate post was the op never stated what the two FTs were question about. Without clarification and without the support of additional post to define the problem as a violation of visa policy, many will assume that this is a current trend of Law enforcement, when I have witness the exact opposite in Beijing.
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I certainly dont have an agenda and am not interested in controlling the market, but I mentioned the other thread as it may have contained some relevance to the initial request. If I was thinking about working under the table in one location, recent and unrelated threads suggesting possible issues are certainly worth reading.
I will concur on a previous opinion about Wall Street, I have talked to them this year and they do seem very straight up about visa regs and appear to play by the rule book. |
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DixieCat
Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I certainly dont have an agenda and am not interested in controlling the market, but I mentioned the other thread as it may have contained some relevance to the initial request. |
Never said you did and I only noted that the particular posting didn't contain information that was relevant. If you have information that someone was actually detained for violations of visa regulations it would be of interest. |
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west2east
Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| ForeignTrainer wrote: |
Perrrrrleeeeeeeeaaase, can we not get into all this discussion about legal and illegal. Teaching without a work permit is acceptable sometimes, some places, some employers, some situations. In some towns it's the norm.. I don't recommend it but it's what happens on the ground.
No-one here is a Chinese lawyer, and even if they were, they would be hard pushed to be definite about this.
OP, yes, of course you can work in SZ without it. Along with most FTs in SZ. But you take a risk.
Let's please have practical advice here, not attitude.
There are many schools and training centres in SZ. The only one that I have ever come across that won't allow you near the students without a work permit is WSE (WSI) in other countries. |
It's it bit difficult to ask for practical advice when in the same breath berating people for not having a law degree specialising in Chinese employment law. From what I can read, people are giving advice to the best of their knowledge. It's very difficult to find authoritative sources of information on the internet. People are giving information based on their own experiences. After all, this is a forum, not a legal service.
Can you work on anything other than a Z visa? Of course you can. However there is a real risk that you will be working illegally. This can have serious repercussions if relevant authorities investigate. |
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DixieCat
Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| It's it bit difficult to ask for practical advice when in the same breath berating people for not having a law degree |
Do you really characterize ForeignTrainer's post as berating.
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| No-one here is a Chinese lawyer, and even if they were, they would be hard pushed to be definite about this. |
Sound like he was just clarifying the nature of the advice.
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Let's please have practical advice here, not attitude. |
As evident from your post, this was a valid request. |
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eclipse12
Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:42 am Post subject: |
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It's certainly possible and people do it. Nothing prevents someone from breaking the law.
It is illegal though and could result in you getting deported and or blacklisted from the country if you were ever to get caught.
The short answer though, yes it's possible. |
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