Job Discussion Forums

[Sudz]

Or at least not a strong one?

I've been in Vietnam for the past 5 years, and one of my regrets is knowing only some rudimentary Vietnamese. One might not regard these as good reasons, but I'll throw them out there...

a) I don't have a good ear for tones.
b) You don't really NEED it in the big cities.
c) Becoming complacent over the years.
d) Having a fairly full schedule, and wanting to put my time into other things.
e) Truthfully not getting a lot of enjoyment from speaking the language - though perhaps that would change after getting a significant handle on it.
f) More and more people are speaking English, and those who have even a miniscule amount of English often prefer conversing in English.
g) Vietnamese is NOT an attractive language. Subjective I know, but if you've heard it (as a Native English speaker) I think you'd know what I mean.
h) The laughter of the locals at my piss-poor pronunciation. This isn't usually meant to be rude, but I find it frustrating.

Anyways the amount of time I've put into my excuse list could have probably been directed into learning the language Truthfully though, my motivation isn't there...and I'm sure one day I'll feel some regret (already do at times!)

Anyone else in this position?? What are your reasons?? I know I'm not the only expat in Vietnam....and sometimes feel in the majority! In places like China and Japan, I felt that the majority expats seemed to have a better handle on the language (generally). That's my 'detective work', perhaps I've mistaken.

Clearly a lot of it would depend where you live (eg. rural/urban).

Try to save the criticism...who can never hate me as much as I do : D

[jpvanderwerf2001]

My Russian is appalling. Of course, people's definitions of appalling vary, but I'm pretty sure my Russian language skills apply. I have what you could call "just over survival Russian" skills (perhaps high elementary in language school parlance). I can call an ambulance, if need be (I have done), and ask for directions--those sorts of things.
Like you in Vietnam, I've been here for five years.
For me, there are no excuses, or reasons: It simply is what it is. I get by well enough, I have plenty of Russian friends, a Russian wife, and a good job as well.
That being said: If I had to "do it over again" I would probably have focused more on improving my Russian (I knew some coming in). I don't lament it, though: Apart from my Russian colleagues giving me crap, my life is just fine.
For newbies to Russia--or any foreign country, I would say that learning the basics of the language of the country you're going to is a capital idea. Russia, for instance, is not easy for those who have zero language skills (as I said, I had some coming in, having lived in Ukraine).
Interesting thread.

[Perilla]

I've been in HK for 11 years, but my Cantonese is limited to "hello", "thank you", "good morning", and directing a taxi to the right ferry pier for the trip home. I learned far more Korean in my two years there - there was a much greater incentive (nobody spoke English).

In HK very few expats make much effort - some have been here all their working lives and speak zero Cantonese. The main reason is that it's so easy to get by with English, and there seems to be so little spare time in this city, but I still often feel guilty that I've not made more effort.

[Shonai Ben]

my Japanese sucks basically......go to a class once a week but just can't get a handle on the language......and even when I do try to speak even the simplest Japanese most people still don't understand me or seem to go into some kind of panic mode and turn off their ears.........I sometimes wonder why I bother.....

[markcmc]

I've lived in several countries in Asia and Europe, and I know that the vast majority of expats [from all countries] are in exactly the same position. I put a lot of effort & money into learning Chinese, which I now speak, but I have acquaintances in Taiwan, who have lived there for over 15 years and can't count beyond 20.

It's never too late if you want - but, as you said, it's usually easy to live without the language.

Whatever you do, don't feel guilty. Either really learn the language, or enjoy all the extra time [& money] you have which language learners do not.

[Sudz]

Great responses guys! I'd be interested in hearing other people's experiences/opinions.

Btw, I meant "Try to save the criticism...YOU can never hate me as much as I do : D"

[denise]

In the Czech Republic and Japan, I sort of studied but never got very far (took a class at my school in Prague, briefly had a private tutor in Japan). In Peru, I dusted off my rusty Spanish skills and had no problems--could do the basics and beyond, read books, have real, meaningful conversations, etc. Sure, I made errors, but I wasn't at all self-conscious. But I had studied in middle/high school and university--it wasn't a case of going to Peru and having to learn the language.

My current situation... nope, haven't even started to learn the language and have no desire to. Mostly because I have other things to do in my free time--it's a question of priorities. I would love to find a high-level Spanish class here so that I can brush up my skills again (I learn languages well when I actually apply myself, but I forget them very quickly, too!). When I finally make it back to the US, Spanish will be the most useful foreign language to speak.

d

[spiral78]

I actually speak Czech, but I think this is more because I spent (still do) considerable time in a small town where I have to. Also have a Czech spouse, who speaks advanced plus English, so no real necessity there, but we do speak Czech for daily stuff.

I studied Dutch and got to 50 percent of the requirements of the Dutch gov't for citizenship, but when the LC here went through some managment changes that mean none of us will have tenure, I kinda lost interest. Will be moving on for sure- why bother? Especially since English is so common here. It's really rare to meet a Dutchie who can't speak English (there are a few).

[wangdaning]

I spoke the language before I got here (Mandarin/PRC), however I have been in Guangdong and Sichuan and never bothered to learn the dialects. Seems simply pointless to me, no one outside that region will speak it and if they understand you they will think you are stupid. Oddly enough I originally wanted to learn Viet but was convinced by my Viet friends Chinese would offer more opportunities.

For me there are good and bad things about knowing the language, some things are easier, but you get unwanted hassles as well. I don't really like someone waking me up at 8 am, by knocking on the door, speaking with a thick accent in a foreign language expecting me to understand, especially after a night of drinking.

I guess you have to weigh it for yourself. Is it worth it, will there be a pay-off, what are the downsides...? I agree don't feel guilty about it, you are there primarily to teach not learn a language. If you feel like you should or want to do it then do it, if not and you can get by without it, don't.

[kaw]

I've been in the Arbic speaking world for 6 years and am pretty disappointed that my Arabic is still limited to the very very basics - and that's only speaking and listening. Part is due to the fact that apart from a small town in Oman and Libya most people speak pretty good English so there is no real NEED to learn. Part is down to laziness.......... I have books, cds and went to a couple of classes but it really isn't good enough and will a new years resolution to acquire at least functional Arabic - though which year am not sure

[basiltherat]

hi
i was once interested in learning arabic while in syria and now in libya so i could try to understand the koran in its originality.

however, when many muslims told me that most fluent arabic speakers didn't really understand it or at least interpreted certain surahs and aya in several different ways, i felt there was little point.

what's more, less than 50% of muslims worldwide actually speak/understand arabic; in particular the arabic in the koran, so i guess i am far from being alone.

have decided that i may as well just rely on several english translations instead.

basil

[nickpellatt]

I spent around 24 months in China, and have left with only basic language skills, and I do really feel it was a wasted opportuntity. I really regret it to be honest.

The reasons for my failure to learn are similar to the ones already stated, laziness, a lack of ability, a lack of time etc. I was also seriously demotivated by trying Chinese with locals, and being laughed at, ignored, and misunderstood on even the simplest things.

Im pretty much convinced that language immersion, and learning in-country isnt the way ahead for me. Being surrounded by the language didnt help me at all, and finding native speakers to teach me is only useful if the native speakers know how to teach the language, and most dont have a clue.

I really feel the best way to learn the language is in a structured way right from the beginning, and being at home (which for me is the UK) is as good a place to learn Chinese as China is! I have actually just enrolled on the OU course 'Beginners Chinese' and I really hope I can get a handle on the language and continue to learn more.

I hope I will return to China, but if not ... I wont view my study as wasted time. I think learning a language is never wasted time, and as cliched as it may sound, I think being able to speak another language is a wonderful skill, and a great skill to possess, even if it offers nothing professionally.

[Zero]

[ls650]

It depends a lot on the language itself. When I taught in Indonesia, I made a genuine effort to learn the language, but after a year of trying I only had an introductory level of understanding: numbers, simple requests, ordering in restaurants, simple questions and answers about family, travel, the weather, etc.

I think the main issue was vocabulary - every word was new to me. When I taught in Mexico, I found Spanish an order of magnitude easier to learn because of the ease of acquiring the Latin-based vocabulary. After a year in Mexico I made far more progress in Spanish than I did with Indonesian.

[Teacher in Rome]

I sympathise with Perilla - I spent four years in HK and found it incredibly difficult to learn Cantonese. I think it's something to do with all the tones, which means you can inadvertently get the meaning completely wrong. I knew about enough to order in a restaurant, direct a taxi home, plus odd words here and there. All my colleagues spoke English, and the rest of the time, I could just about communicate with sign language.

Learning Italian, by contrast, was a breeze. And it's only been through learning the language that I can really understand the culture and what makes people tick. Not to mention that it's much easier to navigate through all the bureaucracy - of which there is a considerable amount here.