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Captain Willard
Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 251
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 Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: Second Passports |
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I travel frequently and am therefore entitled to obtain a second passport. (My passport may be needed at a consulate to have a visa processed while I am traveling.)
Does it pose a problem when leaving most Middle Eastern countries if the authorities can't see the entry stamp? |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Captain Willard,
I can't speak for the other Middle Eastern countries, but in my experience (19 years) in Saudi, all they cared about was your Exit Visa stamp when you were leaving.
Regards,
John |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:43 am Post subject: |
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So... are you a going to be a (TEFL?) teacher in the Middle East? I can't foresee any possible need for two passports as you will not be able to travel that often. Our schedules just don't allow it. Or do you plan to use it to visit Israel?
I wouldn't count on them not checking the visa status of the passport that you hand them.
VS |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| In KSA the authorities are extremely suspicious of anyone who has two passports. They assume - probably \rightly - that you are up to no good ! |
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Captain Willard
Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:35 am Post subject: |
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A passport is a document issued by one government requesting that another government permit an individual to pass through its ports on his or her travels. Each government can issue as many or as few passports to an individual as it chooses. (Some people may have dual citizenship and thus have a passport from two countries. This may also prove useful in the unlikely event that citizens from one country in particular are targeted by terrorist groups.) I have found it useful to have a second passport issued in the past, since it eliminates some problems getting travel visas. so, I always have a passport with me. (People do also occasionally lose passports.)
So the question more precisely stated is: Since most Middle Eastern states apparently require an exit visa, what problems exist leaving on a passport other than that with which one had entered?
How would that affect the issuance of an exit visa? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Willard wrote: |
So the question more precisely stated is: Since most Middle Eastern states apparently require an exit visa, what problems exist leaving on a passport other than that with which one had entered?
How would that affect the issuance of an exit visa? |
We don't really care about your justification for having two valid passports... something that I have been told by the US Embassy and in DC was not allowed except in the case of people with a dual nationality... but... whatever.
First off... it isn't true that "most" Middle East countries require an exit visa. Qatar and Saudi Arabia do... if you have a legal work visa. Oman, Kuwait, and the UAE do not. I don't believe that Bahrain does. And the reality is that I doubt that anyone can answer this question as we don't really know what the men in visa control in all of these Gulf countries are looking at as they flip flip flip through your passport, read the computer, and wield their stamp pads. Even if you could find someone else posting here who has the rare situation of two valid passports, your experience could be the complete opposite of his/hers.
Common sense would say that if you are leaving the country... you better have both an entry stamp and an exit stamp... and when you come back, say after leave, you will have to use your legal multiple-entry work visa to get back in. They would most probably be suspicious of any games with passports. And this would look like you were trying to pull something. You should probably stick to teaching in countries with entry rules that are very lax. No one can predict what these Middle East countries will do.
For instance, if the goal is regular trips to Israel, I'd say you always use the same passport to exit and enter Saudi... fly to Cairo or wherever and use your other passport to enter and exit there.
VS |
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helenl
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 1202
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Just as a personal observation, I've noticed that my entry and exit stamps are nearly always on the same page when I've gone to Oman, UAE or Qatar - or the US for that matter - coincidence? Maybe but I"ve got a 48 page passport with lots of stamps and visas affixed. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| A passport is a document issued by one government requesting that another government permit an individual to pass through its ports on his or her travels. |
Gee - thanks for the definition! I had no idea what a passport was.
In answer to your question, as VS says most countries in the region do not require you to have an exit visa. However, most if not all countries in the region will put an entry stamp into your passport, and I would say it would definitely arouse suspicion if you presented a different passport on exit. Without an entry stamp in the passport, how do they know what your visa status is, or even if you entered the country legally?
BTW I have never heard of anyone other than a diplomat (or perhaps a spy?!?) being granted two concurrent passports by the same state. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Aye, lass! Capt'n Willard's a spy (he's certainly NO diplomat!)! Shiver me looney posters!!! 
NCTBA |
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Pikgitina
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 420
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Aw, Cleopatra and VS are scaring the newbies away again. |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
BTW I have never heard of anyone other than a diplomat (or perhaps a spy?!?) being granted two concurrent passports by the same state. |
Just because you have never heard of it, does not mean that it can't happen. I had two British passports, quite legally, for years, and personally know at least a couple of other people who also had two. Not at all difficult to get either, but that may have changed in recent years. |
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Captain Willard
Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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VS,
Thanks for your response. You always try to your best to be helpful. The people who are playing games with passports appear to be schools who want to keep a document, which is the property of a foreign government, in their possession.
Really, any U.S. Citizen can get a second passport if traveling around the Middle East and also traveling to Israel, although a second passport is generally not permitted:
| U.S. Consulate, Jerusalem wrote: |
Second Valid Passports
Applying for a Second Valid Passport
Current regulations reflect the long-standing State Department policy that no person should be in possession of more than one valid, or potentially valid, U.S. passport at any one time unless under circumstances specifically authorized by the Secretary of State.
The issuance of a second, concurrently valid passport should be considered an exception to regulations, and is approved on a case-by-case basis. The validity of a regular U.S. passport is 10 years. The second, concurrently valid passport will be limited in validity for two years. Second passports, like regular-validity passport, cannot be extended.
To apply for a second valid passport requires an appointment at the Consulate. To make an appointment, follow this link to Scheduling an Appointment or follow the link at the bottom of the page.
What is Required for the Appointment
Please note the following requirements to apply for a second passport:
You must appear in person.
You must bring your valid regular passport.
Application for a U.S. Passport Renewal - Form DS-82. Follow this link for tips on completing the DS-82.
Two identical passport photographs. The Consulate cannot accept photographs that do not meet the specified requirements. For those requirements, follow this link to Passport Photo Specifications.
In addition, you will also be required to fill out a �Supplementary Statement of Applicant for Second Valid U.S. Passport� when you appear at the Consulate. That form will be provided to you at the Consulate when you appear.
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http://jerusalem.usconsulate.gov/second-valid-passports.html
In my case, I was in country X, but needed a visa to go to country Y. Due to a tit-for-tat with my government, country Y would only process the visa application from my home country. So I needed to send my passport home for several weeks while I waited for the visa. Since this would have left me traveling without a valid passport in my possession, the consulate permitted me to apply for a second passport. It was ready in about two days time without much problem. The problem occurred when I went to renew the original passport, which got them all confused about which passport I was renewing.
In Europe, I was asked no questions when leaving with my new second passport. On another occasion, the border control agent failed to stamp my passport. (I had been the only foreigner on a bus reentering the country and the agent didn't even bring his stamp onto the bus.) I asked a local lawyer if this was a problem and his reply was that the government would need to prove that I had either entered the country illegally, or overstayed my visa. With my original passport, which was full of various entry and exit stamps, lacking an entry stamp I was questioned when leaving, but nothing worse happened than a few minutes delay for the questioning.
I suppose it comes down to who must prove what when leaving. I am sure that many people have had a passport lost or stolen. So a new passport probably wouldn't raise too much suspicion. However, in the Middle East, the second passport might arouse suspicions of travel to Israel, Mossad connections, etc.
| Never Ceased To Be Amazed wrote: |
| Aye, lass! Capt'n Willard's a spy |
Now really, just because Ollie North's boss at the Pentagon was a friend of the family, it doesn't make me a spy!
| Never Ceased To Be Amazed wrote: |
| Shiver me looney posters!!! |
Nnnyeahhh! Could be you, Doc!
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Willard wrote: |
| Aye, lass! Capt'n Willard's a spy |
My first thought when I read the spy idea was that if you were, you wouldn't likely have to ask these questions. And you'd have better sources than a bunch of lowly TEFL teachers. (granted most of us have done a lot of traveling...)
So, I guess the granting of a second passport requires a reason that the State Department has on a little hidden list. And, if you just ask, they won't tell you. A side effect of the normal bureaucratic tendency to just say "no" to any question that might require work on their part.
VS |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Just because you have never heard of it, does not mean that it can't happen. I had two British passports, quite legally, for years, and personally know at least a couple of other people who also had two. Not at all difficult to get either, but that may have changed in recent years. |
I never said it could not or did not happen.
However, I really don't understand why a state would issue two concurrent passports for the same person unless they were a diplomat or spy or because of specific circumstances like those described by Captain Williard. It just seems odd. If one is a 'frequent traveller' as the OP says, they can just get an extra-large passport or have extra pages added.
captain
| Quote: |
| I am sure that many people have had a passport lost or stolen. So a new passport probably wouldn't raise too much suspicion. |
Even if it were issued several months earlier, in a different country?
| Quote: |
| However, in the Middle East, the second passport might arouse suspicions of travel to Israel, Mossad connections, etc. |
It's not just that: Like I said, if you present a different passport on exit to the one you had stamped on entry - and which, in the case of almost all Middle EAstern countries, will contain a visa - how are the officials supposed to know what your immigration status is or even if you have a relevant visa? If you want to claim your passport was stolen, you would be required to show proof that you reported it lost/stolen to your embassy, and the 'new' passport you are carrying would have to have been issued in that country, and during the time you were there. I hardly think this reaction would be unique to the Middle East: It would be the same in any country where you need a visa to enter.
When people do get second passports because they want to travel to Israel, they would still use the same passport when entering and leaving whatever country they are visiting. They don't use one on entry and another on exit. It just wouldn't be the same one they used when visiting Israel. |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
However, I really don't understand why a state would issue two concurrent passports for the same person unless they were a diplomat or spy |
Despite your rather incredulous disapproval, the reasons for having two passports were rather more prosaic than espionage. Israeli and Libyan visas which at that time restricted travel to a number of other countries. Even the possibility that one might need to visit one of these States, together with the then Apartheid Republic of South Africa, was in those days sufficient cause for the British authorities to issue an additional passport.
Last edited by PattyFlipper on Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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