Job Discussion Forums

[bulgogiboy]

Don't you think ESL teaching ruins your English ability?

I think when people are surrounded by non-native speakers constantly, they become lazy about how they speak English, as nobody challenges what they say. On top of that, you are always using dumbed-down English, or at least very basic words/phrases, so your grammar becomes sloppy and your vocabulary contracts rapidly!

I found this out to my dismay when I came back after several years abroad and did my Master's degree here in the UK. I was really struggling to express myself in the tutorials!

I also noticed that at least two of my CELTA tutors had problems with speaking English (they were both native-speakers). They sometimes seemed to struggle to remember even the most basic words.

Is a career ESL teacher doomed to speak crappy English? Does anyone have any solutions to avoid this (short of a career change)?

[spiral78]

I think when people are surrounded by non-native speakers constantly, they become lazy about how they speak English, as nobody challenges what they say.

Hmm. I think there can be even more pressure to get it right, as you are setting a standard for others.

On top of that, you are always using dumbed-down English, or at least very basic words/phrases, so your grammar becomes sloppy and your vocabulary contracts rapidly!

It probably makes a significant difference what levels you are teaching. Career teachers often teach at high to very high levels (as I do) and it's for sure that I haven't developed a habit of using 'dumbed-down' English. In fact, I've expanded my vocabulary by working with the content/field-specific needs of my students.

But at lower levels, I agree that one's English can become rusty

[naturegirl321]

It hasn't ruined my grammar , but my vocab has gone down, but that could simply be because I don't have to use it as much as when I was constantly writing papers at uni. I 'm lucky thta I teach high level, writing and presentation, no convo classes so can talk normally in class. And work with all native English speakers. So no, I don't think that my English has gone down more than normal.

[Sashadroogie]

Sorry, but I think this is nonsense. As I've said many times before, you really can't forget your mother tongue any more than forgetting how to ride a bike. I teach plenty of beginner groups, with no appreciable decline of my own language skills. (Vodka, on the other hand improves my Russian, yet does dreadful things to my English.)

C'mon! How could teaching unlearn your own language? Don't you guys read? Books? Remember them?




ACHHHHHH! THE RATS ARE UPON MEEEEEE!!!!!!!

[Phil_K]

I can report on both sides here.

I called my sister after not speaking to her by phone for many years, and she commented that my English seemed molre elegant than before.

On the other hand, as my Mexican wife is near-fluent, but makes the usual errors in translation, and having that reinforced by my students, I do sometimes slip up, making the same errors. (I think Spanish is a "lazier" language than English - it is easier to say complicated things in fewer words). I suppose that happens in the same way that many people adopt the accent of their new home when the language is the same. Maybe this only happens to those that become fluent in their new language???

The worst effect on my English is that I speak more American English than real English, as it more easily understood in Mexico.

[spiral78]

English can become rusty
I think so, but it's very momentary, and comes back swiftly when needed (to read books, for example).

You keep your high-level English honed on Daves, Sasha
Rats!

[Qaaolchoura]

One thing I noticed when I went to Mexico, though I wasn't there very long, was that in places where I was able and trying to speak Spanish, I would come back from walking around outside, and promptly start speaking to my family in Spanglish. It went away pretty quickly though, and I imagine that when I'm living in a country for longer, it come easier, particularly given I have to speak English to students. As has already been mentioned, any language you've learned after puberty is exceedingly hard to forget. Which is also why it's so hard to correct errors in learners after a certain point.

Question:
Do you guys have a lot of communication with other expats?

~Q

[HLJHLJ]

Perhaps it's more to do with living in a non-English speaking country. I read less, and the stuff I do read is often fairly low-level 'holiday fiction' fodder, because it's hard to get hold of good English language novels. (Well, at prices I can afford anyway.) English language TV programmes tend to be more of the same, documentaries or quality political commentary programmes, etc, are thinner on the ground. Plus second language speakers tend to have a smaller vocab (as a gross generalisation) so even when I am speaking to high level speakers, it's not really challenging or stretching my vocabulary.

In other words, I don't naturally happen across many opportunities to learn new vocabulary, or to practice using rarer words. Perhaps it would be different if I was fluent in the local language, because I would still have the opportunities to do all those things.

So I don't think it is actually 'unlearnt' but speaking is a skill, and like any skill it can go rusty. I know my written language skills have been seriously impacted by my reliance of word processors and spell checkers. I can imagine a similar situation happening with speaking.

[Phil_K]

[Sashadroogie]

I despair! One older thread proclaims that learning a foreign language leads to reduced English skills. Now the teaching of English also leads to reduced English skills. Honestly! Where will it end?

You all remind me of an elderly relative who didn't want to put on his glasses for more than an hour a day for fear he'd wear them out...

[Glenski]

You let yourself get lazy. The job doesn't do that. I've been in Japan 12 years and have not lost a bit of my English speaking/writing ability.

One of my co-workers has been here almost that long. We're both married to Japanese spouses. He studied enough Japanese to get a PhD at Tokyo U, while I didn't study much before I came. His English is pretty poor at times, with a total loss on how to use metaphors, for example.

It's all how you let yourself go.

[fladude]

While I'm not teaching ESL specifically, I am teaching English in an Inupiat (Inuit) town. While the kids know English, they retain a lot of their base language structure. The Inuit language, for example, does not contain tense. So the kids often say "We go to the store" which can mean they went to the store, they are going to the store right now, that they are going to the store in the future, or even that they are asking permission to go to the store....

I find that I have started speaking without using tense more frequently than I would like. I am also using a lot of the other local expressions as well. It seems to be part of the immersion experience. I'm sure that some people avoid it, but I have not been able to.

You could call it, "letting yourself go." I call it, "going native."

[bulgogiboy]

[bulgogiboy]

[SahanRiddhi]

Ha ha, you guys are speaking quite humorous. One will never be getting a loss of native language, no matter how long since he moves to an abroad location. This fully is explained among the literature of linguistics. Read out a bit more, and you might just learn anything!