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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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 Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:00 pm Post subject: Conversation Classes |
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Please ignore my original post - I've reposted
Last edited by Phil_K on Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:49 am Post subject: Re: Conversation Classes |
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| Phil_K wrote: |
| I was wondering what other posters consider a good approach to conversation classes |
The only way to learn how to SPEAK a language is to SPEAK the language. I've mentioned before that there are soooo many people who think if they ONLY learn grammar they will speak the language. You have to sit and talk for hours and hours, years and years to REALLY learn how to SPEAK a language.
It will NEVER happen with only a book and rules. I've seen too many students, as I've said before, who could teach grammar at Harvard, but can't put together two sentences in a conversation.
It takes thousands and thousands of hours of PRACTICE to become good in anything. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Most of the students I used to spend time with in conversation class told me they had gone through most of the language schools here in Mexico City, got their little certificates and yet could NOT speak English.
So they wanted to sit and talk with me as natural as possible and it worked.
Overtime of course.  |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| Professor wrote: |
Most of the students I used to spend time with in conversation class told me they had gone through most of the language schools here in Mexico City, got their little certificates and yet could NOT speak English.
So they wanted to sit and talk with me as natural as possible and it worked.
Overtime of course. |
If you are forced to learn the langauge, you will. I learned to speak Spanish that way. Can't do anything in Mexico in English. but look at Los Angeles for example: Immigrants can do just about anything in their native language and they never have to learn English. So many of them never do.
Grammar has it's place, but all too often I have observed teachers give an English class mostly in Spanish. The Ss will never learn to speak English that way, but they do learn grammar. So the problem repeats itself. Places like Harmon Hell graduate Ss and hire them as teachers regardless of their actual ability to speak or use the English language.
Another mistake is that teachers all too often dominate a conversation class or they don't have a focused conversation with some points or target language. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
Can't do anything in Mexico in English. |
True. Unbelievable. My friend came here after spending two and a half years in China. He left after two weeks. Why? He couldn't believe how low the wages were here and the attitudes of the people in general was (and still is) why do I need to speak English, we're in Mexico? 
Unreal. |
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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:19 am Post subject: Re: Conversation Classes |
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| Professor wrote: |
| Phil_K wrote: |
| I was wondering what other posters consider a good approach to conversation classes |
The only way to learn how to SPEAK a language is to SPEAK the language. I've mentioned before that there are soooo many people who think if they ONLY learn grammar they will speak the language. You have to sit and talk for hours and hours, years and years to REALLY learn how to SPEAK a language.
It will NEVER happen with only a book and rules. I've seen too many students, as I've said before, who could teach grammar at Harvard, but can't put together two sentences in a conversation.
It takes thousands and thousands of hours of PRACTICE to become good in anything. |
Amen. Look at the whole of Asia. Grammar machines but can they tell you what the time is? In Mexico it's the same, the only difference being that Mexicans are crap at grammar. It always seems strange to me that a society that spends the best part of the day talking and gossiping would prefer grammar over speaking. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| Can't do anything in Mexico in English. but look at Los Angeles for example: Immigrants can do just about anything in their native language and they never have to learn English. |
Try that here in Mexico and see what happens. Good thing most of the EFLer's here speak Spanish. Helps with the English conversation classes. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:23 am Post subject: Re: Conversation Classes |
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| Enchilada Potosina wrote: |
| Mexicans are crap at grammar. It always seems strange to me that a society that spends the best part of the day talking and gossiping would prefer grammar over speaking. |
Indeed. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:25 am Post subject: Re: Conversation Classes |
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| Enchilada Potosina wrote: |
| Professor wrote: |
| Phil_K wrote: |
| I was wondering what other posters consider a good approach to conversation classes |
The only way to learn how to SPEAK a language is to SPEAK the language. I've mentioned before that there are soooo many people who think if they ONLY learn grammar they will speak the language. You have to sit and talk for hours and hours, years and years to REALLY learn how to SPEAK a language.
It will NEVER happen with only a book and rules. I've seen too many students, as I've said before, who could teach grammar at Harvard, but can't put together two sentences in a conversation.
It takes thousands and thousands of hours of PRACTICE to become good in anything. |
Amen. Look at the whole of Asia. Grammar machines but can they tell you what the time is? In Mexico it's the same, the only difference being that Mexicans are crap at grammar. It always seems strange to me that a society that spends the best part of the day talking and gossiping would prefer grammar over speaking. |
And that is why India is going to destroy Mexico (In an economic sense). Mexicans should have been studying English in-depth since NAFTA took effect in 1994. But instead, Mexico struggles today to even provide the most basic English education at the secondary school level. Truly sad. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| Professor wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| Can't do anything in Mexico in English. but look at Los Angeles for example: Immigrants can do just about anything in their native language and they never have to learn English. |
Try that here in Mexico and see what happens. Good thing most of the EFLer's here speak Spanish. Helps with the English conversation classes. |
I have found that many Ss expect to have every single grammar point fully explained in Spanish. Makes for real fluency in English |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:30 am Post subject: Re: Conversation Classes |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| Enchilada Potosina wrote: |
| Professor wrote: |
| Phil_K wrote: |
| I was wondering what other posters consider a good approach to conversation classes |
The only way to learn how to SPEAK a language is to SPEAK the language. I've mentioned before that there are soooo many people who think if they ONLY learn grammar they will speak the language. You have to sit and talk for hours and hours, years and years to REALLY learn how to SPEAK a language.
It will NEVER happen with only a book and rules. I've seen too many students, as I've said before, who could teach grammar at Harvard, but can't put together two sentences in a conversation.
It takes thousands and thousands of hours of PRACTICE to become good in anything. |
Amen. Look at the whole of Asia. Grammar machines but can they tell you what the time is? In Mexico it's the same, the only difference being that Mexicans are crap at grammar. It always seems strange to me that a society that spends the best part of the day talking and gossiping would prefer grammar over speaking. |
And that is why India is going to destroy Mexico (In an economic sense). Mexicans should have been studying English in-depth since NAFTA took effect in 1994. But instead, Mexico struggles today to even provide the most basic English education at the secondary school level. Truly sad. |
Yea , they should have but they don't see English as being important. It's not even on the back burner for them. Unreal. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Professor wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| Can't do anything in Mexico in English. but look at Los Angeles for example: Immigrants can do just about anything in their native language and they never have to learn English. |
Try that here in Mexico and see what happens. Good thing most of the EFLer's here speak Spanish. Helps with the English conversation classes. |
Funny, when I took Spanish classes at UNAM, none, not one of the Mexican Spanish teachers could even speak English. Not even in the beginner class. It was speak Spanish or die trying. |
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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| Professor wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| Can't do anything in Mexico in English. but look at Los Angeles for example: Immigrants can do just about anything in their native language and they never have to learn English. |
Try that here in Mexico and see what happens. Good thing most of the EFLer's here speak Spanish. Helps with the English conversation classes. |
Funny, when I took Spanish classes at UNAM, none, not one of the Mexican Spanish teachers could even speak English. Not even in the beginner class. It was speak Spanish or die trying. |
La necesidad es la mejor maestra. |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
I have found that many Ss expect to have every single grammar point fully explained in Spanish. Makes for real fluency in English |
Apart from sheer laziness and/or poor English skills, these students expect grammar explanations in Spanish most likely because that's the "method" favored by the Mexican English teachers they've had over the years, whose own English skills often leave much to be desired! I am lucky to have private students who understand that's not the way to go and who would be shocked if I explained a grammar point in Spanish to them. |
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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| And that is why India is going to destroy Mexico (In an economic sense). Mexicans should have been studying English in-depth since NAFTA took effect in 1994. But instead, Mexico struggles today to even provide the most basic English education at the secondary school level. |
Of course it could also be because India was occupied by the British who imposed English upon them, very much in the same way as Spanish was imposed upon natives here.
English was then used by Indians to communicate among themselvs when they didn't know different dialects. They have been using English for decades if not hundreds of years in the same way that mexicans have used Spanish.
I think its completely unreasonable to compare Indias use of English to Mexicos use of Spanish.
If your students aren't learning then look within yourself. It's a failing of the teacher, not the student |
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