Job Discussion Forums

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I am starting to get a bit curious as to the job market and my wife is complaining about the cold. So I put out two separate ads out in the last few days:


The first one was a filled with experience, academic qualifications, credentials and references upon request. No photo, but I used my wife's family name (Zhang) after my first name.

The second was simply this:

Name (John Smith), nationality (Canadian), photo (I'm a half-decent Caucasian male), and an "e-mail me for a full resume" ending.

Any guesses on which ad got more responses?

It's a little sad, but it supports my theories of times gone by.

highly qualified, experienced and educated westerners of Chinese ethnic background need not apply.

The jobs offered under the "Zhang" ad were in the 3000-6000 range. The ones offered under the ambiguous ad were 5000-12,000+.

[drrjon]

what this say...only what you should expect...try another challenge more exciting next time

[seamallowance]

Ouch. I reckon that a certain HR Director in Chongqing is a wee bit touchy.

OTOH, it's no secret how the world works.

[west2east]

Next time try wasting ESL candidates time by advertising as a fake recruiter. One ad being very specific about criteria and the other being very, very vague. I think you'll probably be equally 'surprised' how few people actually bother to read ads in the first place and fire out applications machine gun style.

As for your responses, do you blame the school for discrimination or the fact that certain types of teachers don't put bums on seats thereby rending the schools purpose to make money redundant.

It's, arguably, morally unfair, but life's like that.

[The Edge]

This must be why chaps with names such as Tarquin Fairbanks-Forbes, Chuck Hardy, Patrick O'Malley and Donald Duck seem to have the 'Oral Mandarin' market pretty much sewn up.

[seamallowance]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

OK warning everyone. Skip this part if you are all for low wages and long work hours:

Over 100 offers in 24 hours, including dozens of recruiters.

I'm serious about looking for a new job and of course if the recruiters and schools didn't waste their time sending me offers of 4000 RMB a month for 25 hours a week perhaps they'd get more responses.

Seriously. More than one school offered me 4000 RMB a month and SHARED housing with another teacher.

This was the gist of one offer:

We offer 4000 RMB a month and you will have your own private room. Our school has 2 Filipino ladies, a man from Ukraine, and a woman from India.

Hmm..yes. Let me jump all over that job.

I think it's high time bosses in this country stopped being so greedy. I'm not against the boss making a tidy profit, but 4000 a month?

And to boot, they are asking for TESOL / BA (preferably MA) and a few years of experience!!

Okay, sure. Someone who just went into tens of thousands of dollars of debt to earn a degree is going to work for peanuts in the middle of nowhere?

Alternatively, anyone with a few years of experience is going to look at the offer and simply laugh their collective heads off.

Am I the only one who is flabbergasted?

If China was still a poor country, I'd understand it. But it's not poor anymore, and the students who can afford a foreign teacher are not poor, either.

I don't begrudge schools looking for the teachers that will draw in more students. But pay them accordingly, lest you not get that draw.

You want Jackie Chan to promote your shampoo? He's not free nor cheap.

There is my whine for today. Will keep you all posted on my job hunt.

[west2east]

@ TGWOW

"I think it's high time bosses in this country stopped being so greedy. I'm not against the boss making a tidy profit, but 4000 a month? "

Well, actually you are against "the boss" making a tidy profit. Are you by chance from one of those highly developed apparently "first world" countries that happily imports billions of �$� worth of products made in China where staff earn less in a year than most westerners do in a month? Not specific to you TGWOW, but culturally, the apparent greed you speak of is no more prevalent here than back home for any westerner. The only difference is it's been going on for about five hundred years longer in Europe.

I really don't understand why quite often ESL teachers begrudge private enterprises in China doing what they can to maximise profit. This is an economic ethos virtually the world over. More socialist points of view, whilst valid, don't make sense when China's regard for profit is based on the same or similar economic policies as the west's.

Supply and demand. In all probability, lower paid jobs will attract lower qualified/skilled teachers. Private schools want the best teachers at the lowest price and it's probable that ESL teachers want the best schools for the highest salary and lowest hours. It's that simple. No one is forcing anyone to come over here and earn what might be perceived as a small salary compared to what might be earned back home.

Even a 5K Salary in a second tier city here will yield a higher savings potential and standard of living than most people in a similar job back home. Given that most ESL teacher's total working hours amounts to something not to far from part-time hours and that their skills and qualifications are often questionable and sometimes unbelievably poor, I think the picture is much wider than what many think to be the reality.

[corij]

why not pick the very worst ,long as its in a warm climate and see if you can turn it around. a real challenge

[therock]

[Guerciotti]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[nickpellatt]

Still doesnt sound bad compared to EFL in the UK!

My last UK teaching job. 22.5 teaching hours a week. No housing, no utilities, no paid holidays, no health cover, no other bonus or subsidy at all. Working hours often include saturday, sunday, and even bank holidays with no extra wage. This work is also seasonal and hours all year round are not a given!

Gross salary in RMB per month - 9500, subject to UK tax and National Insurance. Net pay approx - 8400 RMB. (oh, and this is for people who hold a recognised EFL qualification ... if you dont, the salary is approx 100 RMB lower per day!)

UK prices - much higher than China in almost everything one buys on a daily basis. If you smoke the cheapest pack in the UK are 55RMB, if you want a drink average price in a bar is 25RMB. 5 min bus ride is 15RMB.

Im not suggesting low wages are OK, but I am saying China isnt unique, and actually isnt as bad as people make out. EFL salaries and benefits in China are much better than they are in the EU. In the last 5 years I have spent 36 months teaching in China, the rest of the time at home...I always save more and live better when working in China.

[west2east]

@TGWOW

If you are not the Chinese boss paying the wages, look up Blood, Sweat and T-shirts, a BBC documentary on You Tube if you can get it. It just might explain how you or our friends back home are responsible for such low wages in countries like China and India.

As a school manager, I assure I you, I have never, ever begged for teachers to join our school. We sell the merits of the school and it's my personal drive on recruitment that keeps us in healthy staffing. I constantly read all kinds of ads and those schools that state 'urgent' do so because they are lax in recruitment and their need is urgent or it's a gimmick to grab attention. You'd have a better appreciation for this if you have ever been on the recruitment end of ESL.

As for your 5K not going as far as mine, I do accept that the disparity in living costs across china is larger than any other nation in the world and what you say may be true for you.

If you think that your salary needs to go up, then asking for a raise is just one way to skin this cat. I don't promote teachers that ask for more money, I court those that work as if they are in the next job up, those that work hard without being asked. Those that demonstrate that they are not just a backpacker paying their way for their next jaunt are the ones asked to manage branches and, if they wish, to make an investment in the school, own a franchise and build a very prosperous future.

Virtually nothing in life is given away or to those that whinge about how bad a situation is. Those that don't relentlessly compare the situation in China with 'how good' things are back home are the ones that thrive. If you don't like the salary and conditions here and things are better back home, then who is forcing you to stay?