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Need your help...with a test question...(6th grade!)

 
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justflyingin



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: Need your help...with a test question...(6th grade!) Reply with quote

My son took a 6th grade English test for a competition that took place here in Poland (on Wed.).

One of the questions was this.

Which sentence is correct?

1. There is a litter on the floor.
2. Have you got much butter in the fridge?
3. Are there some eggs on the table?
4. We have many homework to do tonight.

What do you think and why?

Thanks. The Americans among us (my FB friends) have not come to a conclusion. The truth is, we wouldn't say any of them "this way".

So, British native speakers...can someone chime in here?
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Richfilth



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Warszawa

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 and 4 are definitely incorrect. 2 is rather weird, but not grammatically wrong; it would just require an extremely explicit context, like two people preparing to make a cake, and contemplating what ingredients they already had.

3 sounds the closest to being correct; it simply sounds a bit Fawlty Towers, like Basil asking Manual if he's prepared breakfast for the guests properly. But this test has definitely not been created by a Native Speaker, or if it has, it's someone born before WWII.
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TwinCentre



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 273
Location: Mokotow

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a ridiculous exam question! Why model sentences which no-one would say? I would encourage the OP to have word with the teacher over this...it doesn't encourage natural English at all.
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Mike_2007



Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 349
Location: Bucharest, Romania

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1,2 and 3 are correct.

1) Cat: I really need a dump.
Owner: There is a litter on the floor. Use it.

or

The king must be around here some where. There's a litter on the floor.

2) is fine. I guess this is the one the question writer wanted the student to choose.

3) As someone above mentions; grammatically correct but requires context:

Man goes to get the eggs out of the fridge, can't see them in there, suspects he forgot to put them away after unpacking the shopping. Calls to his wife, who's in the other room: 'Are there some eggs on the table? I can't remember where I put them'

They are classic examples of questions written by a non-native teacher. I get some of the same from my intermediate students. Their school teachers have drilled into them that you can't use 'some' with a question unless it's an offer.
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Sgt Bilko



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 136
Location: POLAND

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had the same problem with similar questions. Basically, you have to look at the simplistic rules taught to low levels and work out which one(s) they are testing. Here, I think, it is 'We use much/many in negatives and questions' so 2 is correct

Litter is uncountable so 1 is wrong.
We use some in positives and any in questions/negatives so 3 is 'wrong' and 4 is the same rule as 2.

Forget how English is used in the real world and concentrate on half-true, simplistic rules!
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is such a thing as 'a litter.'

" A covered and curtained couched fitted with shafts and used for carrying a single passenger."

" A device (as a stretcher) for carrying a sick or injured person."

So, depending upon context, #1 could be correct grammatically too.

It's a weird question altogether. I think almost all sixth graders know better than to use this language. Sgt. Bilko's right - you have to try to detect what error(s) they hope to identify and guess from there.
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Richfilth



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Warszawa

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike_2007 wrote:

1) Cat: I really need a dump.
Owner: There is a litter on the floor. Use it.

or

The king must be around here some where. There's a litter on the floor..


I must admit, I've never heard a cat's litter tray simply called a litter before, or that it was another name for a sedan chair. But I suppose if the cat said "where are my kittens, then Mike's Owner's response would also be valid Wink

Fortunately, it's teachers teaching like this that keeps teachers like us in work.
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JPM



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 69
Location: Krakow

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As sgtbilko said, 3 is wrong: cf 'some/any'.

According to classic rules of grammar, we only use 'some' in positive sentences ('There are some eggs in the fridge').

'Any' is used for negative situations ('There isn't any ...') and questions ('Is there any ...?')
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justflyingin



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was a general "all over" Poland test. I don't teach these really low levels, so I don't always realize what kinds of things they are taught.

Smile

Becky
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bad test. Perhaps the government needs to hire a team (I'm game - and qualified - to join in) to update their assessment instruments Cool
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Vaporate



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Posts: 19
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I agree. Even from a newbie viewpoint this 'example' of a test appears to be written by either a non-native or a drunk native Smile
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