Job Discussion Forums

[deepteeth]

I've just confirmed that my school has never, to any other native teachers' knowledge, failed a student, made him or her retake a particular level, or given any type of "catch-up" course. I've been told this is due to the Russian "group" system, where students enter in a group and don't leave it 'till they've graduated.

Many of my students are at the proper level, but 15-25% in every class should pretty clearly not be in that class, understand nothing, and in the case of some of my intermediate teenagers, cannot form a sentence at all, though they try.

I'm a new teacher and I like to think I work hard for my students. But I also can't ignore that 75% who are at the proper level. I've also failed many students for cheating on exams, though strangely they always seem to do fine on tests administered by Russians.

Is this "group" system par for the course in Russia? Am I crazy to want an American system, where low-level students are sent to special classes or made to repeat a year of school? Or maybe should I just kick back and bask in the extremely good success of our school?

[ancient_dweller]

is it a public 9 to 4 school for everyday kids or a private fee paying afternoon/evening class school?

[VladJR87]

Yes it is a school and they have to do their best for all students, but it is also a business and you won't have a job if students feel like they are being unfairly failed- even if that sucks.

[jpvanderwerf2001]

deep,

Your concerns expressed are common in Russia (for non-Russian teachers, that is).
First, almost no one fails a class in Russia--public school, university, language school or otherwise. In fact, when I was teaching at a local uni and tried to give someone a '2', the head of the dept. told me it wasn't possible/inconvenient, and she bumped their mark up to '3', despite the fact that the student showed up for two classes (I thought a '2' was generous...it's failing, though). I know of no one who has gotten a '1' or '2' in school or college.
The group system, a ridiculous system if ever there was one, means that if someone fails, they are left behind and won't move along with the group; an unthinkable situation in Russia. Thankfully, they are doing away with the group system in the coming years.
In terms of language schools, people who pay for their courses figure that paying means they will automatically "move up" without fail. Hey, they paid for, say, elementary, and now that the elementary course is done they should move on to pre-intermediate; ignoring the fact that they got 30% on the final exam.
Then you have the students--and there are many, who are sure they know their level better than you--the teacher--does. If I had a nickel for every student or would-be student who, after testing, says "it's impossible that I'm elementary...I KNOW that I'm intermediate", I wouldn't be teaching, I'd have a nice villa in Phuket whiling away the days. If you insist upon putting such a student in a lower group, they simply will walk away without paying; if you put them in the higher group they will pay and stay. As a business, it's very hard to say 'no' to paying customers. Everyone knows that sounds 'bad' for a school, but that's what happens when education and money go together.
I suspect your situation is one of the above. My advice? Teach your best, but don't expect the student to 'accept' failure, nor expect the school not to take the student's money for moving along up the ladder. Such is the lay of the land.

[deepteeth]

ancient: it's a private school.

Vlad, JP: Yeah, I know it's a business, but I just can't really grasp it yet, I guess. I'm a straight public school kid myself from a public-dominated system in the USA. There, for private schools to compete, they need to be selective and expensive. Your posts made me realize that here, schools just need to be expensive and of some measurable quality, be it local certifications, native speakers, etc. Still, I think that a small school with the cojones to shake up the system and actually make students repeat levels could be extremely successful in the long run.

I'll do my best to keep on trucking, but I at least want my students to think they actually need to succeed to pass a level. There's one group in particular that will have many students in upper-int in two years and I honestly have no idea how they will even do it - the textbooks and students just won't jibe.

Is this lack of failure par for the course everywhere in the world, or is it a uniquely Russian thing?

[jpvanderwerf2001]

Again, deep: This situation does not only exist in for-profit learning centers: I have yet to meet a Russian student who straight-up failed a course. Perhaps someone else here has met this elusive species, and will correct me. Therefore, what you're hoping for (what we all hope for, probably) is a change to the very core of the Russian education system. In the US, for example, any person paying for private education would understand clearly that if they don't cut it, they fail; this is because it happens in the public schools (arguably). If no one fails in public schools--where schools aren't presumably being paid--then would it make sense for students to expect to possibly fail in a private language center, where they gave good money?!
I understand your sentiment that it would pay off for both the school and its students eventually; however, I suspect that the business would go out of business before those words were proven right. It's not about "cojones"; it's about paying the rent.

[Velocipedaler]

It's been my experience (in a regular school setting, not a language-only school setting) that poor student performance is seen as a result of poor teaching performance.

For example, when one of our students was on probation for unsatisfactory performance, the administration asked if I had given the student unsatisfactory marks, or if the other English teacher had given him unsatisfactory marks. I responded that the student had given himself unsatisfactory marks because he hadn't done his homework.

The administration was taken aback by my response. Not in a bad way, I had just presented them with an unfamiliar perspective.

I now understand that in Russia teachers carry much more responsibility for their students' performance than they do in my own culture/education system. Teachers are expected to invest much more time and effort not only in instruction, but in motivation, management, etc. as well.

In summary, more responsibility for students' success rests with the teacher than with the students themselves.

I've adjusted my work habits accordingly.

[deepteeth]

[coledavis]

This is an interesting situation. I�ve worked in licensed educational establishments in Russia and these have definitely failed students. Now that, if my information is right, private schools are being phased out in favour of licensed ed. orgs., then they may find that cheating - and this is a case of the schools cheating - may be more commercially dangerous than failing people. It should become riskier anyway.

[Velocipedaler]

Deepteeth,

It seems we're talking about opposite situations.

Regardless, I'm sorry, but I don't have any advice to help you contribute to your students' success. I have a very different situation in my school, which gives me much more flexiblility. I work at a private boarding school (hence, the probation option) which has a much different focus and structure.

As long as you're qualified and capable, doing everything in your ability, my only advice would be to relax Seriously, at some point the students do need to take responsibilty for their education (this was my point with my administration). You have a lot of demands placed upon you as a teacher, so don't let the slackers drain you, leaving you with no energy to teach your motivated students.

BTW, I'm not saying this to gloat, but rather, to give you hope. My school is very well funded, has five PhDs on staff, and has generally high standards...even by international measure. So don't be discouraged, these schools (I'm familiar with others as well) do exist and their influence is growing!

[Velocipedaler]

On second thought, 'relax' can easily be misinterpreted. The idea I wanted to convey is more along the lines of 'find a balance'. Don't obsess over situations about which you have very little control.

[deepteeth]

Thanks Velocipedaler, being told to both find a balance and relax is good advice whether you think it is or not!

I'm just going day-to-day and trying to help my students when I can. But I've decided now to mix in some very basic grammar and vocabulary along with the material we're learning to make class challenging for all students. And sometimes, taking 15 minutes to review present simple with a group of "intermediate" students is necessary. But hey, it's an opportunity to pick up some slack, and I'll take it.

[dmocha]

"Velocipedaler"

It's been my experience (in a regular school setting, not a language-only school setting) that poor student performance is seen as a result of poor teaching performance.

Don't think this is just a problem in Russia. I was shocked to discover that the same attitude prevails in Canada! The more the student pays, and foreign students in Canada pay a lot, the more the administration backs the money and not the instructor. In my experience this was true in university, college and adult vocational school (hefty fees there too). I had cases where the students just figured that they were there for vacation, took off to Toronto for days, missing tests and even exams. Basically I was told to make the problem �go away�.

Give them the papers they want (passing grades) and they�ll give you the papers you want (pay and visa sponsorship).

So as in Korea, remember the golden rule of teaching: �Don�t flunk�em; don�t f*ck�em�.