Job Discussion Forums

rap60 · Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 53 Location: Brisbane, Australia

I am at the very first stage of negotiating for a job in a school in Qingdao. I was given a lead by the TESOL Academy that I received certification from, which I followed. I have now been contacted by a recruitment guy in Qingdao with an offer for a job with a salary of 'around' 4000 rmb a month - free accommodation - flight refunds after first year etc. The job on offer is in a local primary/secondary school. He has offered also to place my wife in the same school and find a kindergarten for our 4 year old. To be upfront, this would be my first TESOL teaching position, but even so, 4000rmb a month seems VERY low to me. As this is the intial contact with the guy, is this the time to mention that I'm looking for a wage of 7,000rmb??, (I know I am setting myself up for some brutal responses here - yes I know I'm a rookie etc) - when does the negotiation start, should I find out more about the job first? for example i dont know what hours are involved as yet, but I assume being a government school it will be quite high? I would really appreciate some input on the salary figure/negotiation and the right questions to ask as I negotiate my way to a contract. Be gentle, you were all here once.

LanGuTou · Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 621 Location: Shandong

There are many university positions in and around Shandong that pay this kind of salary. I guess that if the teaching load is only 12-14 hours per week, it is about right. With accommodation included, that is a survivable salary in Qingdao based on a single teacher with few extravagances.

You are not single though and the costs of keeping a 4 year old here let alone a wife will soon mount. Unless your income (or joint income) exceeds 10K, I wouldn't consider the risk. The biggest risk being adequate healthcare should your child become sick. The standard in Chinese state hospitals is low and you would be looking at international hospital fees. That is OK if you already have savings and/or good health insurance.

You may also find that the accommodation provided by the school is not suitable for a family with young child. I very much doubt that the school will foot the bills for the kindergarten. The recruiter (who just wants money for placing you, preferably you and your wife, at the school) will actually have little say in the matter. Sure, anybody can recommend a kindergarten but I can do that for free!

I think the salary is actually low for an elementary school position. It is tougher than working in a university and puts more strain on the teachers.

There are private schools in and around Qingdao that pay 10K+ and housing benefit. Maybe this is a better option giving you the freedom to choose accommodation more suitable for your family.

rap60 · Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 53 Location: Brisbane, Australia

thanks for your insights. I thought the salary very low but with little experience (yet) in these things had nothing to compare with. Want I dont know is are there a lot of TESOL type positions going in Qingdao or is it very limited? The idea is that my wife will work as well, but that we shall survive on my wage for a few months and then hopefully she will find work that compliments my hours so that we can limit the amount of time our daughter is in kindergarten. Our plan is to have an Australian health insurance (for China) in place before we come so that we can get good health cover while in China.

Gamecock · Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 102 Location: Zhuhai, China

I agree with LanGu Tou. Even as a newbie you should be able to get a higher salary teaching children. Do you also have a degree? Does your wife have a degree? If you only have your TESOL certificate with no experience, then perhaps this is the kind of job you should take. But if you both have degrees, you shouldn't jump at this offer.

If I were you, I would be looking around on my own at jobs with private academies, rather than just relying on leads from your TESOL academy or from a recruiter.

On a side note, even with Australian health insurance, you should know that Chinese health care can often be ATROCIOUS. If I had a child in China I would make sure that I lived in a place that had access to a very good hospital. Much of Chinese medical care is almost 3rd world.

LanGuTou · Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 621 Location: Shandong

TexasHighway · Joined: 03 Dec 2005 Posts: 779

Your recruiter offered you a job paying a salary "around" 4000 rmb a month? What does he mean by that? He doesn't know or isn't telling you the exact amount? Maybe it is even less. I think that should raise a red flag right there!

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

My first 'TESOL' job in China was at 6,000 a month, free housing.

And that was over 7 years ago.

The prices of everything have gone up so much since then due to inflation and greed.

Look at the jobs on this website and search elsewhere, for your own good.

CJD · Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Posts: 116

4,000 is a fine salary if you're only working 12 hours a week and the job is really easy. then you can do some private tutoring on the side for 150-250 an hour, or work part-time at another school at the same time.

but i definitely wouldn't want to rely on that salary if i had a wife and kids

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

Seems about right for up to 18 contact hours pw, from my exp of Qingdao. It's thought to be an attractive location and I'm sure schools conspire to keep rates low.
One place I taught at got almost to the point of hiring a guy and then canceled because of dependent kids. Not sure whether they thought the apt wasn't suitable or what the real reason was.
I agree that you should be in direct contact with the school not via a recruiter.
When you are be upfront about your family situation but I like the idea of your wife teaching at a kindy and taking junior with her. That's a GOOD idea!
Watch location in Qingdao (like all big Chinese cities).
Municipalities are huge and 'in Qingdao' could mean 60 mins away by bus or much longer in rush hour.
You want to both work in reasonable proximity to each other and to the accom.
In my view a little kid on a college or uni campus would be instantly adopted by a 5000+ female students. If you're talking direct, ask where the teacher accom is in relation to classrooms and other noise generators.
Personally I've had more issues with FT generated racket than student.

rap60 · Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 53 Location: Brisbane, Australia

@ LanGuTou/NonSequiter - thanks so much for taking the time to reply with your insights. I too think that the idea of my wife working at a kindy could work very well. We are not a particularly young family - I am 50 and my wife mid-forties, we have an independent 19 year old son who is living away from home already and so will stay in Australia. Our daughter is adopted from China 2 years ago and while we have minor concerns for her adaptation to a new life, we have obviously had to work extra hard to ensure her security and bonding into our family, which has occurred wonderfully - she is more attached to us than her surroundings, but of course we are aware that she will take time to adapt etc. I am not sure that I can now deal with the school in question directly as I have no details as yet. In your opinion is it at this stage that I should state that I am looking for a wage of **** rmb per month? And IS Qingdao such a desirable place to base ourselves?. I have been to Shanghai and Beijing a few times and liked neither particularly. We like the idea of 4 distinct seasons (coming from a climate of Wet/hot summers and Dry/Warm winter we'd like a change) the thought of the ocean (though i hear the beaches are not so great around Qingdao) is also helping us to choose Qingdao as a destination.

slareth · Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 82 Location: Shandong

The beaches in QD are nothing to get excited about. The areas sectioned off for swimming are crowded and chock full of seaweed. If you sit down on the sand to relax you will be approached by an unending stream of people trying to sell you pictures/boat rides/random crap and beggars.

If you like living near the water, like I do, all of this may not matter. I just like being able to take a walk near the water and to hear the sound of the waves against the rocks. I came here under the impression I would be able to do some surfing...I was very wrong.

You will have 4 seasons in QD but summer can be quite humid and for me a little uncomfortable during the day.

Be SURE any contract you sign specifies air conditioning and heat.

As to your salary, with a family I would not come here on 4k. If you can speak decent Chinese and line up side jobs easily...maybe. Your age will actually work in your favor for Business English classes but you'll have to speak Chinese to land them on your own in many cases. Honestly, I would say between you and your wife you should be trying to earn about 12k/month minimum. This is easily achieved but for best results you'll have to already be in the city.

If you can afford to do it, pop on over during the summer without a contract. Work is plentiful and you can get a taste of the city and the schools.

Never be afraid to ask for more money, especially when dealing with a recruiter. You may get 4k/mo but the school will certainly be paying much more. The recruiter and the company he/she works for divvies up the rest and of course they want to maximize that.

LanGuTou · Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 621 Location: Shandong

To the OP:

I have some information that I think could be very useful for you and your family. I would rather pass this by PM but it appears that you do not have sufficient postings to contact me by this method. I will send a PM to your mailbox for you to reply to. For the next two or three days, I have a very busy schedule and may not be able to get back to you immediately but I will by the weekend at the latest.

mat chen · Joined: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 494 Location: xiangtan hunan

That's about what it will cost you to play a game of golf in Qingdao. So now you see there is a salary gap and how people get rich.

rap60 · Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 53 Location: Brisbane, Australia

well thank heavens I hate golf then.

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

I think recruiters are paid a one-off finders fee related to salary - 1m?
So a lower salary works against him/her.
I think keeping the salary expectations down means you are easier to sell.
It is all about package. You get folk on Daves crowing about 12k pm and on closer enquiry they are finding their own airfare and accom and working 30 hours pw.
I think 12k as a family income is do-able with wife doing a few hours Kindy and maybe language school plus privates. You could work Sat mornings at a mill and make 3-400.
But then you want to have a good experience and family time.
My advice is get the basic airfare and accom job lined up for you with the other Kindy-type components just sketched in.
I think you should take Chinese views of the amenities of their cities with the proverbial.
They wouldn't know what a decent beach looked like on an Aussie scale.
They just parrot 'very beautiful' when you mention QD or Dalian or other coastal place.
Try to get near the coast in QD as that afternoon sea breeze in summer is very welcome, even if you don't want to swim in the water.
QD does have 4 seasons but autumn and spring are very short in my exp.