Job Discussion Forums

[naturegirl321]

I posted this on the teacher training forum, but still am confused.

Can anyone explain this to me? If someone gets a BA (and not a BEd) and then goes for a PGCE, then they only have one year of studying to be a teacher, right? Just their PGCE.

But if a person gets their BEd, then they have three years of studying to be a teacher, right?

So why is a PGCE equivilant or higher than a BEd? How can three years of studying for a BEd fit into one year of studying for a PCGE?

[leby26]

Naturegirl, don't fret. You're partially right, but I think your confusion is in that in Canada you can get your BEd in two different ways:

1. get your B.A (or pretty much any Bachelor's) - a 4 yr degree (you could get a 3yr degree, but you won't be paid as much in the end and it may be hard to get into the program), and then get your BEd, which would be one year more.......(OR you could get your PGCE (in UK) or GDE (in AUS) at this time; its equivalent - get it?)

or

2. you can get your B.A. and BEd concurrently (all at the same time) which would take 3 yrs in total (you can also choose to earn an Honours degree with this, which would ofcourse be 4 yrs)
(although this second option seems advisable, it'll make you one of lowest on the payscale in Ontario if you don't do an Honours degree)

Again, that's:
option #1: BA(Honours) +BEd (1yr) = BEd (and 2nd highest on pay scale in Ontario)

option #2: BA+BEd altogether in 3 yrs (or 4 if you choose) = BEd

= PGCE or GDE



I hope you won't be confused for too much longer, and I hoped that helped a little bit since I know it could be confusing with a BEd being taken concurrently or as a 1 yr program after a Bachelor's degree. I'm pretty sure they offer the same sort of concurrent program in Australia, and I'm not sure if they do in England as well (I'll look into it). Hopefully someone else will respond too and they might help you make some sense of it if I haven't; or point out any mistakes I've made

Also, you could always go to the websites of different schools that offer these programs (if you go to the Ontario College of Teacher's site - www.oct.ca - they have links to all the Uni's in Ontario that offer Teacher Education programs; go to UK Uni sites like the Institute of Education, or search for one at www.educationuk.org)

All the best,
Laura

[naturegirl321]

Laura,
Hey thanks. I think I"m going save up for the PGCE and try to start it next year.

[leby26]

me too

[naturegirl321]

Where are you planning on going?

[Mark-O]

Naturegirl,

Will you being doing your PGCE in the UK? As a resident, I will be paid for doing mine in October! Can't say fairer than that. Afterwards I will be trying my luck in Hong Kong. The government bursary of �6k does not have any conditions attached to it other than that you complete the course! So, taking it abroad or never teaching again results in the same thing: you still don't pay back the money! The government will wise up eventaully once they do the mathematics ...

[leby26]

I'm planning on going through the TEACH program they have here in Ontario, also OzTrekk and CanTEACH where I'll be applying to Education programs in Australia, New Zealand and England - Canterbury Christ Church, specifically. We'll see if I get in (I'll be applying for Sept 2005 in England, and Feb 2006 in AUS and NZ) - the International fees are just sooooo high!

[naturegirl321]

Mark-O I'm not a resident. I live in China, but am American, doubt they have any programs in the UK or Ireland for popele like me

[Marcoregano]

In the UK there used to be a PGCE which specialised in TEFL - the ultimate TEFL qual, and all paid for by the govt. I was lined up to do it in 1990 but decided to travel round South America instead. By the time I returned Thatcher had scrapped it because everyone was doing it then leaving the country. I guess governmental altruism only goes so far.... I'm surprised they still haven't attached any preconditions to mainstream PGCE's. Watch that space!

[Mark-O]

Marco: Quite. What is it they say about 'gift horses'? Well this horse is going to bolt before they have a chance to shut the gate!

Leby, Naturergirl: I do sympathise. The fees for international students in this country are hurrendous! But this here now in the UK is REactive to the governments' years of neglect to the profession. Rather than rewarding the existing teacher base they had, they've decided to wait until they lose the best part of that base and start afresh with young graduates and career hoppers. For this reason, I will have no guilt in leaving the country with a PGCE courtesy of the UK government!

[leby26]

Naturegirl,
When and where are you planning on getting your teaching diploma/certificate? I'm planning on it for around Feb 2006 (if I get in) to either Wollongong, Newcastle (in Australia) or Auckland (NZ) - what about you? Have you decided on the UK or AUS/NZ yet? Maybe we could bump heads more on all of this!
Laura

[Gonzo]

Just a word on teaching ESL in Australia. You'll need the base teacher qualifications as outlined above, PLUS a minimum PG Certificate in TESOL. This takes from a semester fulltime through to two years part time. Most people do it P/T while they're teaching mainstream, then go into ESL.

[lajzar]

I was under the impression that most of the government subsidy for a PGCE in the UK is dependant on you taking a teaching position in the UK. The university fees still get paid, but the golden handshake is worth about the same amount on top of that.

[naturegirl321]

[leby26]

I'm definately going for the Grad Dip in Primary Ed as well. Wollongong is actually my first choice since as part of one of the practicums, you have the option to spend three weeks in China, Fiji or Malaysia to teach as well! (Oh, and the programs at Wollongong and Newcastle are cheaper, I've found, and only one calendar year).
I'm applying this September, so we'll see how things go! All the best,

Laura