Job Discussion Forums

[wave5]

What's your opinion on: Teaching on a Business F-visa?
Dodgy?

[randyj]

For a contract less than one school year, an employer often does not want to undertake the expense of an RP, hence the F visa. For a full-year contract, a prospective teacher should consider it dodgy.

[Kram]

Yeah, it's dodgy! If your salary is being payed into a bank account outside of China, it's fine. If your salary is deposited into a local Chinese bank account, it's illegal. So you can work on an 'F' visa, you just can't be paid in China.

[choudoufu]

hi wave, how 'bout some more info.

it appears you're already in china, on a one-year contract,
but are planning to break the contract and move to
another location.

what type of visa did you come in on? did you ever get a
residence permit? are you legal?

your new employer is a university? they want you to
teach on an f-visa?

aha....

[Mr. English]

My dictionary defines "dodgy":
dodgy |ˈd�jē|
adjective ( dodgier , dodgiest ) Brit., informal
dishonest or unreliable : a dodgy secondhand car salesman.
� potentially dangerous : activities like these could be dodgy for your heart.
� of low quality.

Dishonest? To whom? You can get an F visa without lying to anyone; give your passport to an agent, no forms to fill out, nothing but the passport, passport returns with an F visa. To the employer? Presumably they know what you have when they hire you. To the government? Then why does it issue F visas no questions asked? Dishonest to whom?

Unreliable? It's as reliable as any method from my experience.

Potentially dangerous? Not from what I have experienced.

Of low quality? While there is certainly at least one disadvantage to working on an F visa, border runs, there are advantages too: one is not owned by an employer, thus you do not need a release letter if you move on, and if you want to work for yourself as a private tutor, with perhaps a few part-time hours with small private schools, there is no particularly satisfactory alternative.

[7969]

i worked on an F visa at one school. No problems arose. If people don't do it fine. If others do, and you disagree so what? it's not your life.

[LanGuTou]

[mat chen]

You people must with the cognant dissonance people. The problem is that there is a huge demand, but people need gifts to allow things to happen. Things happen if you are here to invest. English teachers infest and don't invest in China.

[flyingscotsman]

[nickpellatt]

I know someone who was teaching on an L visa, and for one reason or other than I never fully understood, his school was raided. It was a public middle school BTW. He hadnt been there for long and was asked to visit the police station with another teacher and the head teacher from the school. The policeman gave them all some sort of lecture, which he couldnt understand, and a week later he was given an F visa and asked to continue teaching.

He didnt stay and finish his contract there. Nothing to do with visa but all to do with not liking the students. He left without any difficulty and got a new job in the same town.

Do people get deported on L or F visa? Perhaps they do, but I have never seen it, or heard of it from first hand experience. Ive never worked in top tier cities though, and in those places I imagine things may be strict. In the places I have worked (25th tier cities/towns) I feel an F visa isnt a problem. Guanxi and face are more likely to keep your job safe and give you legal status, than a Z/RP visa. If something goes badly wrong Im not sure having the correct visa is going to be a huge help TBH. We see lots of stories about contract nightmares/non payment/ refusal to give release letters and these arent exclusive to one type of visa.

There are lots of places that will offer a correct visa. If its a worry, find one of those employers, and take a leap of faith that all will be OK. If its not a worry, find an employer who offers you everything else you want in terms of location/teaching/conditions and an F visa, and take a leap of faith that all will be OK.

I should just add, I dont plan to stay in China permanently. I dont plan to marry a Chinese girl and raise a family etc. I dont even plan to work a full one year contract. My needs and expectations are different to many peoples, so my views reflect my needs. My next trip to China should run from 09/11 - 06/12 and so my decisions reflect that.

[dog backwards]

Why ask anyone's opinion on working on an F visa? Visit a Chinese consulate's website and find out what the F visa is intended for.

I have firsthand knowledge of someone who worked on an F visa. That was six years ago.

The latest update (2009 and June 6, 2010) of the Washington, D.C. Consulate's website states:

"...Business Visa (F Visa) is issued to an alien who is invited to China for a visit, an investigation, a lecture, to do business, scientific-technological and culture exchanges, short-term advanced studies or internship for a period of no more than six months."

http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/hzqz/

However, the conditions that follow are contradictory pertaining to the length of validity of the F visa. Several conditions exist which allow an extended stay. Nothing is stated regarding whether one may draw a salary from a Chinese entity during his stay on an F visa. I've read the arguments regarding whether one may or may not perform work-for-pay on an F visa, but I've never actually read Chinese law or policy that governs this issue. Whatever qualifies as "business" may actually be determined by the local authorities.

I wouldn't work for pay on an F visa. I wouldn't consider employment by a Chinese employer as conducting business.

This week, the Public Safety Bureau asked the FAO for our passports and FECs. This followed a rumor that the powers that be were cracking down on illegal employment. Was there a connection? Who knows?

[flyingscotsman]

[bythebookie]

[Mister Al]

It is illegal so obviously dodgy, but less so if your 'employer' has paid off the local cops to turn a blind eye to the lao wai working in the their school. However, if it's known that you are working illegally you could be subject to a shakedown by the cops outside of the school, especially if you are also doing 'privates' and this becomes known as well. In big cities that is less likely to happen. IMO, you take your chances or you don't. As has been said you or the 'employer' will have no enforceable rights or indeed any obligations in relation to any agreements you make, but you will be the weaker party.

[flyingscotsman]