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Degree question

 
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chicagotechrs



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:29 pm    Post subject: Degree question Reply with quote

I have recently accepted a job at a uni in China that was through a recruiter. I did not have a bachelors degree, and the recruiter made one appear with my name on it. Is there any chance of the school finding out, or has anyone worked in China with a similar situation? What would happen if they found out? Should I be concerned?
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Degree question Reply with quote

chicagotechrs wrote:
I have recently accepted a job at a uni in China that was through a recruiter. I did not have a bachelors degree, and the recruiter made one appear with my name on it. Is there any chance of the school finding out, or has anyone worked in China with a similar situation? What would happen if they found out? Should I be concerned?


Aside from that, the fact that you are committing fraud is of no concern to you? And how about the students you will be teaching? That doesn�t bother you either?
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tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:43 am    Post subject: Re: Degree question Reply with quote

chicagotechrs wrote:
I have recently accepted a job at a uni in China that was through a recruiter. I did not have a bachelors degree, and the recruiter made one appear with my name on it. Is there any chance of the school finding out, or has anyone worked in China with a similar situation? What would happen if they found out? Should I be concerned?


Committing visa fraud (applying for a visa with false documents) is never a good thing.

Best case: you get discovered and fired. You have to quietly leave at your expense.

Worst case: you are prosecuted bu the government for visa fraud, detained for some time (potentially years in an immigration detention center) then deported and labeled "persona non grata".

.
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Zero



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: Degree question Reply with quote

tttompatz wrote:
chicagotechrs wrote:
I have recently accepted a job at a uni in China that was through a recruiter. I did not have a bachelors degree, and the recruiter made one appear with my name on it. Is there any chance of the school finding out, or has anyone worked in China with a similar situation? What would happen if they found out? Should I be concerned?


Committing visa fraud (applying for a visa with false documents) is never a good thing.

Best case: you get discovered and fired. You have to quietly leave at your expense.

Worst case: you are prosecuted bu the government for visa fraud, detained for some time (potentially years in an immigration detention center) then deported and labeled "persona non grata".

.


I have never heard of this happening in China. Pulling out a worst-case, scare-tactic scenario is not helping the OP. If you don't agree with it ethically, then just say: "I don't agree with it ethically."

Realistically, if the authorities figure out it's fake, and decide they care, then your visa will be denied. If your visa is approved, then you will be at minimal risk of repercussions for the duration of your contract. In the event that you then want to sign another contract somewhere, you may once again be at risk during the visa-approval process. To be honest, I don't know. If you moved to a new school and, particularly, to a new province, I think your degree certificate would be requested for the hiring and visa-processing phase.

Before anyone flames me, I am not saying the OP should or should not take any particular action. I am trying to answer the question that was asked, and trying to do so with facts, not opinions.
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denise



Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A red light just went off in my head... if the recruiters have so little integrity, that lack of integrity could be used against you... not paying on time/at all, withholding other contractual benefits, etc. I wouldn't go anywhere near such an organization.

d
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Denise. Apart from the very shady legalities of the visa, an organisation that will resort to fraud in one area is not likely to be a safe organisation to work with in other ways. They've got a big stick over your head - any complaints from you regarding wages, hours, housing, etc are unlikely to hold much water.

I'd be afraid to work with such a company all 'round.
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be worried, too. The recruiters have you over a barrel if anything goes wrong. Of course, if it were found out about, it would reflect badly on them for not having done proper checks. (I don't think they'd want to come clean that they'd actively helped you create a false degree!).

IMO, you really should reconsider whether going through with this is in your best interests now and in the long term. You're already worried about it and with good reason. I suppose you could be deported but the worst that may happen is just being fired - that could be bad enough financially. Even if no-one finds out, it's a precarious position to be in and what happens with the next job? In the long term is this job going to be something you want to put on your CV? Do you think it's likely you'll have to explain how you got a job in a uni in China, without having a degree, at some later point?
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, be concerened! Ditch the recruiter and find a job on your own. Most places require a BA, but you might still be able to find jobs without one.
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tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Degree question Reply with quote

Zero wrote:
tttompatz wrote:
chicagotechrs wrote:
I have recently accepted a job at a uni in China that was through a recruiter. I did not have a bachelors degree, and the recruiter made one appear with my name on it. Is there any chance of the school finding out, or has anyone worked in China with a similar situation? What would happen if they found out? Should I be concerned?


Committing visa fraud (applying for a visa with false documents) is never a good thing.

Best case: you get discovered and fired. You have to quietly leave at your expense.

Worst case: you are prosecuted bu the government for visa fraud, detained for some time (potentially years in an immigration detention center) then deported and labeled "persona non grata".

.


I have never heard of this happening in China. Pulling out a worst-case, scare-tactic scenario is not helping the OP. If you don't agree with it ethically, then just say: "I don't agree with it ethically."

Realistically, if the authorities figure out it's fake, and decide they care, then your visa will be denied. If your visa is approved, then you will be at minimal risk of repercussions for the duration of your contract. In the event that you then want to sign another contract somewhere, you may once again be at risk during the visa-approval process. To be honest, I don't know. If you moved to a new school and, particularly, to a new province, I think your degree certificate would be requested for the hiring and visa-processing phase.

Before anyone flames me, I am not saying the OP should or should not take any particular action. I am trying to answer the question that was asked, and trying to do so with facts, not opinions.


It wasn't a scare tactic and I gave BOTH best and worst cases.

There are also lots of "in-betweens" but it is still never a good idea to knowingly commit visa fraud. The results are never in the fraudsters best interests and it would suck in a big way if he just happened to be the one they choose to make an example of (pee in the wrong officials pot).

.
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Denizen



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 110
Location: Tohoku

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The recruiter won't suffer for his indiscretion...you will.

Nearly all of us had to pay our dues and put in (at least) four years to get a teaching position.

See what you can find with the education and experience that you've got, and take steps to improve your teaching abilities and subsequently the better opportunities that will open up.
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