Job Discussion Forums

[lasingparuparo]

I recently applied to Westgate and got an offer but have a few concerns that, given any other program or school would be giant neon warning signs. Here is a list of very short and important questions I sent to my recruiter and here are the exact answers.
me=red
recruiter=blue
comments=green

1. I think I indicated that I prefer an urban work environment but what are the realistic chances that I will be able to get placed in a location of my choice? 10%? maybe 50%? Is it based on experience (eg. more experiences teachers get first choice?)

>> Since many instructors wish to work in Tokyo, it is about 10% that you would be able to work in Tokyo area. Please understand that even if your school is in Tokyo, there is a high possibility that you live outside of Tokyo, probably at Saitama, Chiba, or Kanagawa. It is very difficult for us to find your apartment in Tokyo area. As long as you live in Kanto area, you have access to Tokyo area by train.


Great! Very clear!

2. The stipulation about the housing is somewhat worrying, can you send me pictures of examples of previous apartments? Or is there a strict criteria as far as cleanliness and livability are concerned when it comes to Westgate choosing housing? I just want to make sure that I will not get stuck in a disgusting apartment just because Westgate is trying to save money.

(stipulation=if you are unhappy with your apartment and want to change then Westgate can terminate you and not pay for you to go home)

if you want to see the pic of the room I received pm me and I'll send it to you. Its quite nice looking

>>We are trying to find clean rooms for our instructors but each instructor has different condition. I have attached the sample photo of our apartment but I cannot guarantee the exact condition. We have not yet decided our apartment at this stage.


3. Are there some people who have done this particular program before that I can contact to ask questions? Most of my questions will probably be answered easily by them.

>>Our instructors are quite busy during the contract period, therefore, they have no time to contact with you. If you have any questions, please let me know.


What?! Since when are they SO busy they can't even talk to me?! And notice I asked for people who HAVE DONE this program (as in past tense) and apparently these people are super busy too... I think this is super suspicious, not to mention I read ALL of the westgate posts in the forum and NONE of them had firsthand replies from actual participants, only hearsay from friends of friends...

After I see your questions, I am afraid our program is not very suitable for you as there is a possibility that your school and apartment location is not in urban area. We think our program is difficult to meet all of your expectations.

She ends this with saying basically, 'never mind we don't want you' which is very weird considering I told her in the beginning that I had some concerns but otherwise was ready to start the paperwork. Anyone else think this is super strange?

[seklarwia]

Unfortunately, you're concerns, although totally justified, have just made you come across as potentially difficult worker; one who is going to be quick to complain if things are not to your liking.

You seem to be placing a lot of importance on getting placed in an urban setting, yet it is no secret that in dispatch, you go where you are needed. Your question is definitely not demonstrating the flexibility that a dispatch company wants from its employees.

And if that is a copy and paste of your questions, your 2nd concern could have been worded with much more tact. And this comment should have never even left your head: I just want to make sure that I will not get stuck in a disgusting apartment just because Westgate is trying to save money.... OUCH! These kinds of critising remarks reek of nerve and are never going to win you any brownie points with any employer.

Is Wesgate a shady op?... I can't comment on that.

Is her reaction to your questions strange? - Not at all especially in this flooded, employers' market. You have painted yourself as a potentially troublesome employee. There are loads of potential new recruits out there boot licking just to get over here and Westgate would prefer to have somebody like that who doesn't question their practices and stipulations, will not complain about the crazy long commutes or long working days. It doesn't matter how fantastic a work history you have or how amazing your qualifications are. You are only going to be with them for 3 months (unless they choose to offer you a resign) and they would rather have somebody who is easy to deal with, turns up on time and does the work sufficiently than a super teacher who is going to give them grief and possibly run their mouth at their placement, upseting the uni/school staff and losing them a contract.
Westgate choosing to let you go now makes perfect business sense especially since they aren't going to lose anything at this point; you're not here yet, haven't even started the paper work and they haven't forked out for your flights.

Believe me, they are having to turn down many potentials because they greatly out number the jobs on offer. It would be a simple case for Westgate to call up one of these people and tell them that they have reconsidered their application if they don't already have some standbys on a waiting list (which most of the large recruiters do).

[genesis315]

Yeah, the OP does come off as more difficult to work with than the multitude of other applicants that would take this position immediately. my 3 cents.

[Glenski]

1. I agree that you sound to Westgate like someone who is nearly demanding to work in the city, otherwise you will not take the job. Bad form.

2. Your statements in red about housing are poorly worded for a professional communication, and you really shouldn't put so much emphasis on what an apartment looks like or its "livability" (whatever the heck that is" and "cleanliness" (a slap in the face of any employer who has taken the time to line up a place for you, let alone one who lives in a land where image is everything; trust me, the place would be clean!).

To insinuate, let alone come right out and say "disgusting apartment" is reason enough for any employer here to put your application in the garbage can. I know I would, and I'm not Japanese.

3. You asked to contact past teachers. How would they have any contact with them? You ask too much. They were completely on target in saying "never mind, we don't want you". It's not "weird"; they had no idea what "concerns" you had earlier, and you should feel lucky that they even allowed you to voice them.

Live and learn for the next application. Japanese business etiquette is one thing you need to get used to, but you also seem to cross the line even in western terms.

[TokyoLiz]

Wow, the way you asked about the apartment is far too confrontational. You've got to take a big breath, and go at things sideways with Japanese employers.

You've also got to take into account the costs, living arrangements and commuting conditions when you get a job in the Kanto area. Employment within metro Tokyo could mean anywhere from Chiba City to Yokohama City to Saitama City. That's an immense geographical area, and it makes more sense to live in the 'burbs and commute to higher earning jobs in the city. I do this - work in Tokyo proper, but live in an outlying area. Westgate couldn't handle the overhead, and you couldn't afford the rent on those paltry wages they offer.

[Bread]

As others have said, the thing you said about the apartments was almost shockingly unprofessional. A more carefully-worded version would read something like:

Could I please see a few more example photos of previous apartments? I'd like to have a better idea of what they're usually like before I make a decision.

Really, how do you want a representative of the company to respond to "I'm worried that your company is going to put me in a disgusting filthy hole to save money"? Are they going to say "Yeah, actually that's what we usually do"?

And for number 3, surely you could have searched around for people saying they'd worked for Westgate on various forums and mailed/PMed them. 90% of the posts on this forum are "HAS ANYONE WORKED FOR WESTGATE/PKC/AEON/SHANE????" I see people recommending others to ask employers to speak to current employees all the time, but it always comes off as kind of untrusting to me. If I were an employer, I would probably be a little offended by it. If you have a location where they want to place you, THEN you could ask to speak to a current teacher, citing reasons like wanting to know what there is to do in the town, what you should bring, and so on.

[MarkM]

The Japanese recruiter had no other option. Walking away from the situation was the only way to 'save face'. This is a major element of Eastern cultures.