Job Discussion Forums

[Trebek]

I was about to sign an invitation (contract) with a University, last week. Before I signed, I asked the e-mail of a teacher who works there, just to check the place out. The representative sends one of an American who's worked there for years supposedly. The guy sounded legit, but his writing sounded a bit dry and mechanical for an American. Then he gets near the end where he describes the apartment. "The apartment has six floor." was one of the sentences....
First I thought it was a typo but he had a couple other chinglish sentences in there. I didn't take the job.

I did sign another invitation, from another school w/o bothering to get a teachers e-mail, I guess I was in a hurry to get something locked down. Yesterday I was going through "Travelpod" and reading a recent blog written by a lady that worked for the same uni as an ESL teacher this past year. She didn't complain really, talked mainly about her Chinese travels during the year, but did mention her apt. was really a dorm room. I wrote her and she sent me pictures. Her place was tiny with the bedroom/kitchen/living room in one room and a bathroom in the other. By contrast the pics I was sent by the school showed a large two bedroom flat with separate living room and balcony. I mentioned this and she admitted that the school did this to others that worked there. She also mentioned that no one she works with is going back with that school.

If I write the school back and reneg on my contract, what are the chances that I will be put on a no-hire list? This is a government Uni. Wow, can't even trust a public institution? What an eye opener.

[slareth]

If you are talking about a no-hire list for that specific school, it is possible but depends on how badly they need teachers at a given point. From the sound of it though, you should not be worried too much about that one school. If you are talking about a general blacklist, it does not exist for such trivial matters. This was pointed out in another thread you participated in, perhaps you missed it though.

To respond to the title of this thread, there is no such thing as honor or integrity for the vast majority of schools or recruiters. Same can be said for many 'teachers'. Maybe a chicken or the egg thing. /shrug

Personally, I once put value in a contract I signed. To me, it was the same as giving my word. I would honor it if at all able or not agree to it if I felt perhaps I would be unable. I learned very quickly that was a noobie mistake.

In most schools, public or otherwise, the contracts mean next to nothing. In many cases you'll have to fight for what is stated in the contract and you won't always win. Never be afraid to walk away at any time, regardless of what you have signed, if you are the only one attempting to maintain the contractual agreements.

[choudoufu]

you haven't signed a contract yet. you printed off a contract
sent by email? signed, scanned, sent the last page back?
that's more an agreement to agree later to agree to signing
the contact...if everyone agrees. that's usually enough to
get the paperwork taken care of, you get your invitation letter,
apply for your visa, fly to china, arrive at the school....and
then you sign the real contract....which may or may not
be the same as the 'contract' you thought you had signed.

[mat chen]

Joke of the modern world. A scanned document gets sent to you by someone you have never met . Sign anything they want you too. Nobody cares. In China you need a stamp. All legal documents must be stamped and you don't even have a Chinese name. It's called a chop in CHunglish.

[Trebek]

Yeah, I didn't think there was a "black list", but was worried the Govt. could deny you a visa or something.

The more I deal over the internet, the more I wish I was on the ground looking for jobs, seems that the better schools and locations aren't advertising too much. Some say I should just hit the streets in person.

[Happy Everyday]

You're not there yet. Don't worry about it.

Word of caution about Dave's. My friends and I all have years of experience in Education. But we all have different experiences. I know a guy who has never signed a contract in China, and he has no problems. My experience has always been contracts contracts contracts, and I've never had any problems in that regard.

My problem has been accomodations. If there is no kitchen, how can we cook home food? Schools sometimes do not allow guests or real kitchens. Some schools have great apartments. Once you move in and agree on the contract, *my* personal experience is that it is fixed for the duration of contract. No doubt, other expats have different experiences.

I suggest you try to maintain a positive relationship with your FAO, Dean, and school. Take them with a grain of salt. Maybe it'll be a bad situation. Or maybe they're great, and you don't want to enter the job with a chip on your shoulder nor do you want to go in with pre-conceieved notions.

Some people break contract without problems. Others have to finish their contracts before moving on.

Look at it this way: your home country has some great schools, yeah? Within them are some a-hole admin you'll have to deal with. How you handle them, your job, and your pedagogical methods is up to you.

Your contract needs to be signed with a red crop to be legal. You can move on without worries.

[flyingscotsman]

[Teatime of Soul]

Ask for photos of the apartment.

Whatever response you receive, including no response, will be most instructive.

[Banner41]

I am pretty much done with any type of living on campus at any school. I only look at jobs with housing allowance or apartments off campus. Too many negatives and not enough positives for me. Even provided apartments off campus can be crappy so best option imo is a housing allowance. Might have to stay where ever they put you for a couple weeks when you get there but finding a place of your own beats all those "what if" headaches. Most apartments you can find come furnished to a certain extent. Dealing with gate guards, small "converted" dorm rooms and crappy internet connection because you are inside the firewall of the school will just want to make you go home.

[mister_kot]

I completely agree with banner. When I first came here in Oct. 2006, the school provided an 'apartment' which was actually a dorm room in the boy's dormitory.

I asked for a housing allowance instead, and haven't taken a school provided apartment since.

Sure you have to pay your bills and whatnot, but the freedom far outweighs anything.

[mrwslee003]

We were in China in Aug of 07. The apartment they provided had 3 bedrooms alright, as requested. But it was all dusty, wall covers were cracking and a washer that wouldn't wash. We had to demand cleaning done before moving in and it was cleaned alright - with just water and dirty rags. The rags used in the washroom were used in the kitchen.

We had to re-clean everything and asked the landlord to fix the cracks in the walls. We gave him til October when there was a week of holidays.
We took off for a week and returned to the same apartment. To make a
long story short, we gave notice and moved out of there.

They have different standards for tenants. They feel its the tenants job
to clean everything and to provide repairs that is needed. Its a different
world there and FTs just have to adjust.

On the other hand, the friends we made and the sights we saw more than compensated for the dirty apartment experience.

[Lobster]

Banner41: Probably the best advice you can get.

RED

[Trebek]

Thanks for all the excellent responses. I did find another place that seems a bit more on the level than the first two. (but ya never really know do you?)
This next year should be quite an adventure for sure.

[Riviello]

Positive thinking is a virtue.

[Trebek]