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turtlenecks · Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 14 Location: Osaka, Japan

Hello,

I teach in Japan and in one of our college prep grammar books, the following sentence is written (taken from 'I Will Survive'):

I should have changed that stupid lock if I had known for just one second that you would come back to bother me.

The Japanese English teacher thinks it's correct. I think it's wrong because you can't use 'should have' in an imaginary situation. 'Would, could, and might have' all seem to work fine but 'should have' sounds wrong.

Does anyone have a better explanation?

Thank you[/b]

TwinCentre · Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 273 Location: Mokotow

You are right - it is wrong.

Should is not used hypothetically....would is, so it should be 'I would have or might have or could have

Isla Guapa · Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject:

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I was also thinking it might be an (outdated?) Britishism.
'Should' is sometimes used in the place of 'would.'
Not sure if this is current language, much, though - I've heard it, but rarely, from my UK colleagues.

RobertH · Joined: 05 Jun 2011 Posts: 10

spiral78 is right. It is sometimes used in old-fashioned British English, particularly in south-east Britain (The Queen's English, as it's called). 'Should' is used instead of 'would', taking its meaning.

For example:

I daresay, Jeeves, had I known this newfangled television would be so unreliable, I should never have bought it in the first place!

It isn't in general use and in your context is most likely an error. As for how to explain it, I think your explanation is as clear as you can make it - we can't use 'should' in a hypothetical conditional.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject:

Well I should jolly well think so!

Actually, I don't think the lyrics are to blame here, but rather the punctuation is what is leading us astray. If you look at how they are usually written:

I just walked in to find you here
with that sad look upon your face
I should have changed my stupid lock
I should have made you leave your key
If I had known for just one second
you'd be back to bother me

No punctuation to guide us, but I think it is clear that the first couple of shoulds are expressing regret at something not done. The 'if I had known' part seems to leave what action the Gloria would have taken unspoken...

As in....

I should have changed my stupid lock!
I should have made you leave your key!
If I had known for just one second
you'd be back to bother me...!

Could be totally wrong of course...

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

johnslat · Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject:

Should've, would've, could've - the useless perfect modals. Useless because they all can express regret for something done or not done in the past. And you can't change the past.

Of course, when spoken, they usually sound like should'uv, would,uv and could'uv or like shoulda, woulda, and coulda.

As in this famous scene from "On the Waterfront"

Terry: A one-way ticket to Palooka-ville! You was my brother, Charley, you shoulda looked out for me a little bit. You shoulda taken care of me just a little bit so I wouldn'ta had to take them dives for the short-end money.

Charlie: Oh I had some bets down for you. You saw some money.

Terry: You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let's face it. It was you, Charley.

Regards,
John

guty · Joined: 10 Apr 2003 Posts: 365 Location: on holiday

This is very common British usage, certainly not old fashioned. It is often incorrectly written as 'should of', mostly used to describe/speculate about an event which didn't take place, but just a quick Google finds it in headlines on the same day quite recently ...

CNN:
Obama should have given Congress more say on Libya
22 Mar 2011 ... It's a story we've heard many times before. An African nation ...
and

Boston.com:
Obama should have obtained Congress' approval on Libya -
22 Mar 2011 ... IN HIS remarks last Friday announcing the new military campaign against ...

both of which I guess are US based. As is Gloria Gaynor. Why would anyone say that this is wrong?

johnslat · Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject:

Dear guty,

"Why would anyone say that this is wrong?"

Beats me - maybe he/she should've paid more attention in class Very Happy

.

Regards,
John

fluffyhamster · Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:48 pm Post subject:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=should%27ve+gone+to+specsavers&tbo=p&tbm=vid&source=vgc&hl=en&aq=f

I like the Lynx/Axe parody. Smile

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Archaic or very formal BrE

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

"Ah should like a cup of tea, please, suh."

RobertH · Joined: 05 Jun 2011 Posts: 10

Hmm, I guess good ol' Sutherners also use it. Never thought of it that way before.

RobertH · Joined: 05 Jun 2011 Posts: 10