Job Discussion Forums

[Sudz]

Salutations!

I'm having some ambivalence taking the MA TESOL only route (I lack an undergraduate), and want to weigh all my options. It sounds as though this degree is most useful in the middle-east, and that the best pay is in Saudi (correct me if I'm wrong on either of these statements).

Anyways I want to do this for perhaps another 10 years (guesstimate). I'm 29 at the moment, and I think I've hit the ceiling in terms of esl jobs with my current qualifications (6 years of experience and a TESL certificate). I currently make around 2200US (+) a month working my normal mornings/afternoons M-F hours, and a fair bit more if I choose to work evenings and/or weekends (this is in Vietnam). I also get a total of (close to) 3000US a year, provided I work sufficient hours (this includes 500US health insurance money, 500US vacation pay, and an end of contract bonus).

I AM however planning on changing careers downs the line, and would like to return to Canada in order to get my BSN for nursing.

Two things I'm questioning though:

1) Would I necessarily be able to make THAT much more working in Saudi than I do at the moment? Might the money I spent on my MA be negated should I choose to stick it out for at least a couple of years? Also, are there any other lucrative countries (we're being relative to the esl world here) where the MA can be of much help (sorry if this isn't really related to this board....feel free to not answer).

2) (To relate to the topic). Do any of you enjoy living in SA? I'm sure many of you are there for financial gain, but are you able to find any pleasure while there?

[Mia Xanthi]

How are you going to get a reputable MA without a bachelor's degree? There are many good, top-end jobs in KSA, the UAE, Qatar, and even Oman. However, most will require that you have three years of experience POST MA. You will not just get a quick MA and then waltz directly into a top-end job. There are many people out there with MAs and 10 or 20 years experience in teaching overseas after attaining the MA. I do not mean to sound harsh, but you need to be realistic about this before paying for an MA. That is, if someone will enroll you in an accredited graduate program without first having a BA.

[Sudz]

Makes sense regarding the experience (I should have clarified that I'd planned on getting at least a couple years of post-MA experience elsewhere). Thanks for the reply.

There are people out there who have accredited MA TESOLs WIHTOUT an undergraduate (though a lot of people don't seem aware that this is possible). I would be doing this degree through Nottingham University (on-campus UK degree through the Malaysia campus). I would have to take the 'non-standard route', meaning I would complete a postgraduate certificate, then transfer to the postgraduate diploma (assuming my marks are decent), THEN writing a dissertation for the MA (it actually takes about the same time as doing the MA program directly, and contains the same number of modules).

I got into the program based on my experience and my TESOL certificate (I did also highlight some favorable marks I earned during my year in college, though I don't think this made a difference). There were people on other forums (who took the MA only route) who had mentioned working in the Middle-East without any real problems.

[lynnknows]

There are also schools that offer a 5 yr program. You complete all your Bs course work and do your masters work Masters all at once. My daughter is doing that now in New Hampshire.

[veiledsentiments]

Not sure what the difference is in this program. You can pretty much do any Bachelors in 4 years and an MA in one if someone is willing, ready and able to carry some overloads and do summer semesters. (in the US... can't speak for other systems)

VS

[lynnknows]

The difference is there is no need to apply for grad school, no GRE to take, and its less than the normal 36 credits for the Masters. No need to take extra classes or go during the summer.

[Sudz]

Would relevant post MA experience be based more on the location or the level in which one teaches? If I were to work in, say, China for a couple of years, then perhaps do a year or two in Malaysia (at the university level), might this be considered adequate? Would I have to start at the bottom in Saudi and work my way up?

[veiledsentiments]

I'd say that this experience would count... but to make it count as much as possible, stay away from pure conversation courses and try to concentrate on the 4 skills and test prep perhaps.

VS

[Sudz]

Thanks for that.

I do currently have some IELTS testing experience (practice testing), as well as some experience teaching IELTS classes, though of course it's PRE MA. I'm guessing this would be disregarded, along with my other experience teaching k-12.

Good to hear that I wouldn't necessarily have to get the experience teaching in Japan or Korea - the first being off limits due to my lack of publications, and the second (probably) due to my lack of BA.

By the way, I'm assuming that - as an MA TESOL graduate - university level experience would be the way to go?

[veiledsentiments]

If university is the level that you want to teach, best to have your experience at that level. They do look at experience pre-MA, it just won't count towards salary level at most places. (but it can give a boost to your chances)

You might also want to get some TOEFL experience. In Asia, you are likely to run into the TOEIC, but it isn't used much in the Gulf. Being an official IELTS examiner is a plus with the employers that use it.

VS

[desertdawg]

Dear VS,

Why do you post on this forum when you haven't worked in KSA?

Also why do you continue to post on other forums when you have been away from the areas (I think for a considerable amount of time) you claim to have knowledge in?

No offence intentioned, but I'm afraid your posts quite often show a lack of up to date knowledge. Less is more!

I feel no need to sign this as it is Blatently apparent through the posting tools who I am.

[veiledsentiments]

I have no idea who are you are and really don't care. If you have information to add, feel free to add it. My advice is general, not specific to Saudi, but relating to MAs and university level employment in the Gulf.

If you have nothing to add, keep your lectures to yourself until such time as you have purchased this cafe. Feel free to skip my posts so that you don't have to get your knickers in a twist over that which is actually none of your business.

VS

[desertdawg]

Many institutions, perhaps not KFUPM and WSJ (whatever) don't require post MA experience unlike countries such as Oman and UAE. You got da ticket, then you got da increment. Although far from it for me (a non MA holder) to comment.

I had five years in the good old KS of A with several breaks working for various masters. Left earlier this year for another Arabian Peninsula country.

I made some of the best friends I have whilst doing my time. I was very lucky in some jobs with great resources and self development opportunities.

With the financial freedom I enjoyed, I travelled extensively, bought most of a house back in my native land and even met my better half there. Life is what you make it. I SCUBA dived. The Red Sea is excellent. Camping, desert trips, da mountains and escarpments, road trips and the ubiquitous shopping. Compound night life or a secluded villa away from sniffing noses.

Students could very often be extremely challenging as was day to day living without the support of a good employer. Go with low expectations and ready to face a new set of challenges and the awareness that your values are not those of the people or the place in KSA and perhaps you will get on and enjoy it as much as I did.

I had the best of times, but the worst of times too. Good luck and try first without an MA but a BA is a prerequisite to visa requirements.

[johnslat]

Dear desertdawg,

"I had five years in the good old KS of A . . . . . I was very lucky . . ."

MA-less in the Kingdom, you most certainly were. Exceptionally and extraordinarily lucky.

Regards,
John

[kaleem97]

Desertdawg,

I have a question. Is there a possibility for career advancement (e.g. transcending classroom teaching) I wouldn't mind teaching for a couple of years, but I would like to get into management. My biggest concern is that once I'd return to the states, I would like to find employment working for international education organization, or work as a program director for a university.

Any insight?

Unfortunately teaching ESL doesn't carry the same demand as it does in the Middle East.