Job Discussion Forums

[shamblaram]

Hi all,

I've just passed a CELTA ('B' grade) and would like to teach English in Vietnam. But I'm 40 years old, and have read, often, that most schools/language centres in Vietnam, and most of Asia, prefer young (mid 20s) teachers. Is this true? Or is this specifically true for teaching children (where lessons are more about edutainment and therefore young teachers might be perceived as being more energetic)?

I also have a BA (Classics from Oxford University), an MA (Creative writing from Bikbeck, London University), and over ten years experience working in multinational advertising/marketing (copywriter and communications consultant) and journalism (reporter/feature writer/editor for a Indian newspaper). As it happens, I would prefer to teach adults- universities or business/tourism English, so maybe my age wont be such an issue... maybe even an asset...?

But will I need experience to get the Universities or business/tourism English (and communication) jobs? Or further qualifications (MA Linguistics or TESOl, DELTA or Business English)?

And which Universities can I teach in? Several websites state that 'the majority of teaching-English jobs in Vietnam are at Universities', but I cant seem to find out which ones, or where to look for jobs at them.
I have read lots about RMIT, and I will approach them, but can anyone recommend any others? (I apologise, if this info is somewhere in these forums; I just cant seem to find it)

Finally, is it better for me to head out to Vietnam to look for work, rather than contact potential employers from home (UK) beforehand?

As I've said, apologies if these questions have been answered before in these forums, i just cant seem to find out where! So any advice would be hugely appreciated... Thanks in advance.

[snollygoster]

Universities? Some are real and some are nothing more than language mills.
RMIT is good. Vietnam National Uni is ok. Lotus (Hoa Sen) calls itself a university but its far from it-Saigon Tech calls itself a University and its more like a circus.

Most of the teaching in Vietnam is in Universities you said? far from it- By far the greatest volume is in language mills ranging from a handful of good to passbale ones, then down to the majority which are nothing but edutainment businesses where you have to "blay gamed deetcha" or you get the sack because the students dont like you.

Academic integrity is something that has not come to Vietnam yet, and whether the student passes depends on his/her parents standing with the "party" or/and on how much the parents will pay.
(At Saigon Tech for example, a pass in English is 51% and the students gets 52% for writing his/her name on the paper.)

Anyone with quals and a desire to deliver academically, is not really welcome in Vietnam-Vietnamese "education" institutions want malleable clowns who can do tricks for the kids (who are any age from 4-35).

Also, if you are not "handsome" or "pretty" you cant possibly be a good teacher.
Age is NOT a real problem in Vietnam, but some places like em young mainly because they are easy to scam-all bright eyed and bushy tailed straight off the boat whereas older folk know whats going on, and thats bad for the schools/Colleges.

[shamblaram]

Thanks for the reply. I suspected from the lack of detailed info about teaching at Vietnam Universities, that the generalised statements on several TEFL websites re 'most teaching is at University level' might be wide of the mark/wrong...

But a couple of people I've emailed who've taught in Vietnam suggested I try to teach at Universities because (they said) "they want 40-year-old teachers". I'm guessing that either they're not clued up, or were trying to warn me that most language school teaching jobs go to youngsters so I'd probably have little luck there...(?)

Do you think, in that case, I should play down my qualifications (the CELTA excepted)? (so as not to scare em off/make it look like I'm less discerning/more amenable) Or do you think that my age might be a problem regardless?

ps I'm not an old fogey (yet!)- but I cant lie about by DOB. Or can I?!

[deadlift]

Given your background, I'd get in touch with the Prof. Com. department of RMIT university about lecturing jobs.

The English programmes there definitely don't care about age, and you more than meet their criteria.

ACET is a school that isn't as much in the "young and perky" game.

[1st Sgt Welsh]

[snollygoster]

Thirded- Didnt think of them. Used to be pretty good to work for.Dont know about now, but havent heard any negatives.

[bludevil96]

Just something to keep in mind. If you see negative comments from people who seems like they've been here forever but do nothing but bi_tch and moan, just discard these people into the circular file. They're just losers who couldn't get jobs or women back home but has no place to go. Without VN, they wouldn't be getting anything or even feel important or needed. If I had to look at the world with so much negativity, particularly a place that pays my bills and give me a decent living, I'd go and hang myself.

With that being said, VN's a great place to teach. Uni jobs are available and age isn't a problem, especially if you're white. There's enough language centers and private tutoring to go around whether it's for Koreans or other foreigners here. What VN need is more positive foreign people who leaves their country behind and not try to impose their own set of values here. Lastly, just remember to stay away from the bar girls or you'll have something in common with these guys, and I'm not talking about English.

[haller_79]

There aren't many universities in Vietnam, there's a lot in Britain and America though.

[shamblaram]

Thank you all for your suggestions/advice. Hope to see some of you out there! Thanks again.

[isabel]

You could try one of the kinder and gentler countries in the ME (Qatar and Oman come to mind) And get a couple of years teaching on your CV. Age is not a big consideration there, though some countries in the ME set a ceiling at 60.

[bludevil96]

The more important issue for you is whether or not you've got all your documentation ready BEFORE COMING to VN. Read the sticker about his carefully and make sure it's done or else you're going to be wasting a lot of time chasing papers and rubber stamps. The bureaucracy here is horrendous so the worse thing you can do is rushing out the door.

[shamblaram]

Thanks for the tips, guys.

Isabel, I did actually think about teaching in the ME, but I read repeatedly (in forums and job ads) that one needs 2-3 years experience to have a chance of getting a job. Is that not the case? (I recently passed the CELTA; have no TEFL experience yet)

Bluedevil96, yep, I heard that the whole documentation/work permit process is a nightmare in Vietnam. I'm back in the Uk at the moment, waiting for my CELTA cert from IH, as well as the original certs for my BA and MA... Fingers crossed they'll arrive soon so that I can get out to Vietnam and start doing the rounds asap...

Incidentally, (and I know this has been covered before on these forums, but I cant find a definitive answer), do I need to have the certs notarised before entering Vietnam? Or at the British Embassy in Vietnam before handing them over to the relevant Vietnamese authorities?

AND (stupid question maybe, but...) will I get the certs back? And do certs get lost by Vietnamese work permit departments?... Basically, should I order more copies (a set of each cert)?

Thank again, everyone, for your advice.

[bludevil96]

[shamblaram]

Thanks again, bludevil96. Clearly, it's better to dot every 'i' and cross every 't'- get EVERYTHING notarised here (in the UK) before heading out to Vietnam. Hopefully the Vietnam Embassy in London won't be as awkward/prickly as most people say it is!