Job Discussion Forums

[naturegirl321]

I can't beleive I'm writing this after I swore I would never study again. Two of my friends are doing their doctorate, one is going through USQ and the other through Uni of Liverpool, both are doing their EdDs. Three other colleagues are thinking about their doctorates as well.

I've seen the job adverts and it seems like more places are asking for doctorates. I've actually enjoyed the work I've had to do for my second MA as I think the courses are more up my alley and since I've written 18,000 plus words in two months I'm starting to thinkt hat I could do a 100,000 word dissertation if I chose the right topic

Anyways, I've heard mixed reviews. Some people say that it's not worth the time and money, while others do. I suppose I can see both sides and often on the job adverts, the difference between an MA and doctorate's salary is minimal, however, on the other hand, I'm sure you could get better jobs.

What do you think? Anyone who's doing or done a doctorate? Was it worth it? Anyone who's decided to definitely NOT do one? Why did you decide against it?

[Perilla]

Your age is important - the younger you are the more likely you'll get payback for your time and trouble. Remember you're looking at 2 or 3 years of f/t study.

But a serious consideration in the TEFL profession is this: there are relatively few openings that require a PhD. Unfortunately there are very few university faculties specialising in TEFL - university TEFL depts are usually just "English Centres" and mostly are just looking for teachers, not research professors.

If you're going to do it, make sure you do something that offers the possibility of side-stepping into the mainstream faculties, eg. linguistics.

I have a friend in the UK with a PhD but who left it too late in his career to get a high end uni job. Believe it or not he often doesn't include it on his CV because he thinks it scares some employers away eg secondary schools, where even the principal probably doesn't have one.

[tttompatz]

I'm only ABD and not PhD but to quickly answer your question, "Was it worth it?" the short answer is yes and no.

From a personal development standpoint I am happy that I did it.
From a professional position it was not worth it (if you are strictly looking at the cost/benefit analysis).

I do NOT include it on my resume - there has never been any need to.

.

[naturegirl321]

Right, I figured I'd have two kids and then start a little later, so I won't be that old. I've actually seen a lot of jobs at unis here that dn't require them,but give you more pay. I've seen a couple of jobs that actually require doctorates.

[sojourner]

Whether it is "worthwhile" doing a PhD (aside from reasons of personal satisfaction), would depend v.much on your career aspirations.


If you like the language school scene, then it might be a waste of time. Someone has mentioned that having a PhD and focusing on language school jobs would probably put you at a disadvantage ! A language school boss might not want to have someone on the staff who is much higher qualified than he/she - also, some might regard a PhD holder as "being too theoretical", not "having the common touch", etc, as far as relating to students' language learning needs. Also, some of one's colleagues might feel a bit intimidated by having a PhD holder on the staff - whilst others might either think that the holder is a "loser" who can't get a better job; or, possibly, that the person is a bs artist/poser who probably doesn't even possess a "real" PhD !

If you consider that the language school scene to be your forte, you might be better off considering doing a DELTA (or the Trinity equivalent). Holding a M.Appl.Ling , along with something a bit more practically-oriented such as DELTA, would probably put you in the running for DOS positions in the top-range language schools.

Rather than "put all your eggs into one basket", such as working on a PhD, you mant also want to consider enrolling in a couple of extra Masters programmes. eg, a M.Ed (such as in Adult Learning/Teaching), or/and even an MBA. With an MBA, you would not only be amply qualified to teach something like Business English, but also Management, as is the case with some FT jobs in Chinese unis. Also having a M.Appl.Ling. AND an MBA would probably put you in the running for EAP jobs in unis (eg preparing Business Studies graduates who want to undergo postgraduate studies in the US/CAN/UK/AUST, etc.


NG, I recall some years ago reading that you were contemplating enrolling in a PGCE/Dip.Ed. programme. Having such a qualification would, I feel, by of more use to finding a well-paid job than merely holding a PhD - I'm thinking of those well-paid jobs in international schools as well as with HK's NET programme. Of course, with the top-range international schools one also needs to have had at least two years exp. in schools in his/her home country, as well as holding a PGCE. But, I'd imagine, that without such exp, the PGCE would probably still help one to get a job in the 2nd level international schools - not as well paid as what one would expect in the "top" schools, but still better than what language schools usually pay !


Peter

[naturegirl321]

[rayman]

I have a PGCE and a MEd and thinking of a Doctorate.

If you're Australian, are you aware the government currently provides full scholarships for all Australian citizens enrolling in a EdD? Worth considering as it won't last forever.

A PGCE and phd will normally place you on top of the pack for top tier international schools. With experience this can get you a package of over US$100 000/year plus your 3 months holidays.

Naturally, it will also open the door for working at universities in your home country.

The personal rewards are probably much higher than the financial ones though.

If you are having difficulty finding a single area of research to focus on for up to 6 years (part time) of your life, some Australian universities offer flexible research options. This includes submitting a research portfolio consisting of multiple smaller research projects. Much better suited if you also plan to move around to different countries during this time.

If I take on a doctorate it will be in a field of research that could open doors outside of teaching, such as government aid and development work. Just my 2c.

[naturegirl321]

[Insubordination]

I'm an Australian currently doing a Grad Dip Ed. What are these full-scholarships you speak of? Do you mean that they're Commonwealth supported places, and you can defer the fees? I don't think that would qualify as a scholarship.

There are some minor scholarships in some subjects areas in NSW for those who'll agree to work in high-need areas, but nothing to get excited about. Can you point me to a website with that information? There might be something I'm eligible for.

BTW, after 10 years of avoiding formal study, I have found it extremely difficult to even do two subjects while working full-time. I don't know how you guys do/have managed all your studies. I've maybe had two free weekends over the past three months. I'm not all that motivated either.

Any tips?

Sorry to hijack NG. I don't think you need to do a PHD unless you have a very specific highly-paid role in mind.

[MotherF]

Naturegirl--you mentioned, "when the baby is older" and "have a couple of kids" and I'd like to address this concern. Not me, but my husband has been in graduate school, MA and then a Phd post children. (Our twins were born a month into his first semester in his MA, and they will turn 7 three months before he finishes his PhD this fall). Of course it will depend on your personality and that of your child(ren) but I feel studying with a baby is a lot easier than studying with a preschooler or a kindergartener. Babies spend many more hours asleep, do not move from the place you've set them, can sleep in a baby carrier while you work at the computer, and generally eat what you give them. Preschoolers on the other hand, run around, make lots of noise, see you are only have paying attention to them while you are working on the computer so either take that as an oportunity to do something they know you don't want to do or try to "use" the computer at the same time. They suddenly become picky eaters no matter how hard you've tried to avoid that and time has to be spent preparing them things to eat. And they sometimes require elaborate rituals in order to fall asleep--and only sleep at night, rather than night and half the day. As your kids get older you do not have more time for yourself--you have less. I imagine that somewhere in the middle elementary years I will again have more time for my side interests, maybe someone with older kids can enlighten me. But if you are not talking about starting a PhD in 8 to 10 years time, I recommend sooner, rather than later.

[AGoodStory]

[naturegirl321]

[naturegirl321]

[rayman]

Insubordination,

It is called the Research Training Scheme. The Commonwealth Government will pay for the entire study fees of a research degree within a specific field. Education being one of these fields. It is not a competitive process and I have been told by my professor it is pretty much a formality of accessing the grant. It's just a matter of filling out a form. I wish I knew about this before I started my MEd, as I would have done a MEd (Honours) instead as the research component would have made the entire course free.

Here are some government links;

http://www.heimshelp.deewr.gov.au/2_Glossary/R/RESEARCH_TRAINING_SCHEME_RTS.htm

http://www.innovation.gov.au/RESEARCH/RESEARCHBLOCKGRANTS/Pages/ResearchTrainingScheme.aspx

And from the University of Sydney website;

http://future.ask.sydney.edu.au/app/answers/detail/a_id/815/~/what-is-the-research-training-scheme-or-rts%3F

The grants are actually paid to the universities. The universities then use this money to pay for the student fees plus other resources within their campus. The University of Newcastle was giving all EdD students a free Apple laptop upon enrolment. It seems to have created quite a bit of competition amongst some universities.

[Insubordination]

Thanks for that info.