Job Discussion Forums

[Rebekah1288]

Hey everyone,


I'm new to Dave's ESL Cafe, but I really, really want to teach English in Asia! Mainland China is my first choice. However I would also be interested in Taiwan or Singapore!

I am beginning this thread because I was hoping some of you might be able to provide some insight into working with Reach To Teach. I just applied for representation by this company, but I am a little concerned about the response I received.

Basically, I was told I am ineligible for placement in China because I lack TEFL certification and the requisite 2 years of relevant experience (I just graduated from college in May). The recruiter then urged me to consider teaching in Taiwan but implied that I would only be considered if I successfully completed "a well recognized TEFL qualification".

Ultimately, I am concerned that the recruiter may be trying to sign me up for a TEFL program that gives Reach To Teach a $$ cut... without any real intent to actually represent me. The recruiter mentioned a few programs by name (CELTA, Trinity TESOL and Oxford Seminars) and she also directed me to the Reach To Teach TEFL info page, where readers are pushed to sign up with i-To-i (a Reach To Teach "partner").

Should I be suspicious? Or should I take the recruiter's offer for consideration seriously? Do any of you all have experience working with R2T, and if so is this a normal practice?

Also, is there really any point in taking an online certification course? I've read that they're essentially worthless.

[roadwalker]

If you want to teach English as a foreign language anywhere, you should take a certificate course in it (at least). The CELTA is the best known, followed by Trinity TESOL. I took one of those "....or equivalent"s which was purported to be based on the CELTA course. For Mainland China, any reputable course in TEFL should be ok. I don't know about Taiwan or Singapore. The course (100 something hours of instruction with a live teaching component) will at the very least make you consider the most likely problems you will encounter and have you work out and teach lessons monitored by experienced teacher trainers who will give you feedback.

As for getting a job in the mainland, some (many?) find jobs with less than the two years and TEFL certificate, but they are most likely jobs that are hard to fill with qualified teachers for various reasons. Hopefully those reasons are due to unfavorable locations, and not unscrupulous employers, but they aren't the top jobs.

I don't know about Reach to Teach. They've been advertising for a while though. You don't need a recruiter in China but it opens up the search to schools who don't or can't communicate directly with teachers. But the recruiters are generally out of the picture the moment they bring the teacher to the school and take their cut.

[Rebekah1288]

Roadwalker--

Thank you for the reply!

I definitely agree that I should take a certificate course if I want to do a good job teaching English (I do!). Nevertheless, I am a bit concerned that even if I take a CELTA, Trinity or "equivalent", I may still have difficulty securing employment. I guess I'm just nervous about putting so much $$ and time into a certificate that may or may not be the ticket to my dream.

You mentioned that one does not need a recruiter to find a job in China. I was wondering what another good option might be? I currently live in the USA and I'm not quite adventurous enough to just go to China and see what happens. I definitely want to know where I will be teaching beforehand.

I have heard/read that replying to various job postings (the ads on Dave's ESL job Board, for example) can be a bit risky. Do you have any experience or knowledge about this?

[roadwalker]

1. Your TEFL school will probably have some connections to employers, although not necessarily in China. They should be able to point you in the right direction,

2. but you will probably have to research a lot on your own. Google til you puke. Wikipedia has information and links for a lot of schools. Learn about China, look up different places on Wikipedia and follow links to school websites and email contacts there. Use the search function for this website.

3. Sites such as Dave's often/sometimes have employers' ads as opposed to recruiters' ads. Sometimes it's hard to know by the ad. Many chain English training schools, as opposed to academic schools, put out lots of ads on Dave's. Read the complaints and warnings about a school before agreeing to anything (i.e., search on Dave's or other websites). Some are probably as bad as or worse than the warning post. On the other hand, some of the complaints are probably unwarranted. Read as many as you can so that you can get an idea of life abroad and what can go wrong, and what you should get used to.

4. In the end, you may end up getting a job through a recruiter, but at least you should have a bit more savvy about what to expect from the recruiter (not much) and from the school.

Good luck.

[GuestBob]

The quickest and most effective way to answer your question with certainty is to find some openings from employers and apply to them directly. If they reject you because you don't have experience (which is the real kicker here - SAFEA has stiffened up about age and experience a bit more lately from what I can tell) then you know you will need to work on that.

[Timer]

I've heard that the experience requirement differs from province to province, or school to school. I wouldn't let it deter you. Just apply for any ad that interests you and look into other agencies/recruiters (though be careful with them and research as much as you can about them). You can then get an idea of what kind of jobs you would be qualified for. Do as much research as you can into salary, working conditions, the legal process for hiring foreigners etc. while you sift through ads. It's time consuming but it's better than ending up in a shitty job with major problems.

A certificate course would help you a lot if you are serious about being an EFL teacher, and would increase your chances of employment. You can always try and find a job that doesn't require one and see if you like it. Then go back and do a certificate course if it's for you. If you do a course, don't do an online one. An 'offline' course will give you actual teaching experience and you'll be able to learn from your classmates as well. I've never done an online course before but I can't imagine it would be as beneficial as the real thing.

I wouldn't bother with courses that are offered by recruiters. You might as well go for ones that are internationally recognized instead of some shady one that might only be good for one or two jobs in China.

[AliceB]

Are you thinking about teaching as a long-term career? If you're only planning to teach for a year, it might be better to forgo the qualification and apply to one of the big chain schools instead. I believe Aston and EF will both take teachers without experience or qualifications, as they train you to teach their own specific curriculum. The pay isn't great, but if you're going for the experience rather than career progression that might not matter to you. I agree with the above post: it's not worth doing a course unless it has some teaching component. (I think i-to-i specialises in those 20-hour online TEFL courses aimed at British gap-year students who have paid to teach in Thai orphanages. I may be wrong.) My CELTA course was incredibly useful and I learned a huge amount, but it was heart-stoppingly expensive - it cost the same as two months' salary at the job I'm about to start in China.

Remember that Reach to Teach is a large Western-run recruiter, and therefore sticks to the rules very closely. I have a CELTA but no teaching experience, and I found a decent job quite easily. If you spoke to Chinese schools directly, you might find they are more accommodating, especially in small towns or remote provinces. (Just be careful not to get scammed...)

[Rebekah1288]

Thank you all for the helpful replies! I will definitely try applying widely and directly to schools, especially those in smaller cities. The main reason I wanted to go through a recruiter is that they supposedly pre-screen the schools, thereby allowing the applicant more certainty of the school's legitimacy. Do you all feel that--with enough research--you can safely identify reputable schools, even from abroad?

Also, what recourse does one have if one ends up working for a "bad" school?

AliceB, I am definitely considering teaching as a long term career, but I'm not 100% sure yet. That's my main concern with the CELTA; it really only seems worth it if teaching ESL will be a long term thing. Thanks so much for the tip on the large chain schools, though!

[7969]

[xjgirl]

i-to-i, yeah, that's a real con-job

[Rebekah1288]

^^ why do you say that? Any experience/evidence, or just an impression?

[xjgirl]

just my impression,

thats its a money making scheme designed for people like prince harry or his associates in kind in eton college

just dont pay lots of money to be eaten by a polar bear

[Sam1]

like a push to sell something to you.

I am new to the ESL world, so my information is from the perspective of someone much like yourself.

ESL certs like CELTA can help and I believe one response noted CELTA as the most highly recognized. It seems to be the case. Oxford Trinity a very close 2nd.

The online courses hold very little weight.

However, you can absolutely get a job in Asia without an ESL cert. Before I completed or even contemplated my CELTA, I had job offers from China, South Korea and Vietnam.

I didn't end up taking a job with the company I am going to mention and others may have a better view of them, but in China I had a good interview experience with Meten English.

They offered me a contract and it was reasonable. The working hours were a sticking point and I had a couple of commitments to fulfill before I could start. Ultimately, the timeline did not work.

I am not cheerleading for them as I have zero reason to do so. But I think it can help when we detail our relatively pleasant experiences in the ESL market as much as we post the horror that seems to be out there.

If you are considering the CELTA, I can give you my view. Just post here and let me know.