Job Discussion Forums

[RickinHK]

Is this just the norm or am I in a particularly harsh school?

I used to really love teaching, I taught in the UK for a number of years before coming to Hong Kong and then I joined a great little international school and after 3 contracts (6 years), I decided to look around.

So last year I applied for an English teaching position at a DSS School. It had a great advert:

- English Medium of Instruction
- Taught through inquiry based methods (my international school was doing the PYP)
- Project and genre based approach to literacy
- Child Centred Education

So I was happy when I was offered the position. However, it wasn�t as it seemed. The school was a long way from what it described itself to be. The EMI is just a joke. All of the teachers, except some of the English team (i.e. the non-Cantonese speakers), use Cantonese all the time. The kids only use English in English lessons.

I have a couple of other gripes � the day seems long, we start at 7:45 and finish at 3:15, (reality it�s 3:30 by the time the kids have packed up and we�ve checked there temperatures etc�- Twice a week I teach 'remedials' till 4:30). We are contracted that we are not allowed to leave the school grounds until 4:30 but that�s just a joke as most of the staff are in till 5:30 � 6:00 anyway. It�s the first school that I�ve ever known people to sleep in the staffroom or staff meetings. Is this normal? It�s not even looked upon badly at all. Yet if we are late 3 times in a year then we receive a written warning.

There are some things that used to irritate me but now I�ve just grown used to (such as teaching most Saturdays, endless meetings in Chinese, 15 minutes for lunch etc�). However it�s the little things bug me, such as:

- �Remedial� classes are called �remedial classes� not �Booster or Enhancement� lessons � even on days when these lessons are on, a PA system blasts through the whole school �this is a reminder for remedial students to go to room XXX for their remedial classes� (this is after the same announcement is stated in Chinese � just so all the kids know). In the UK you'd go to court for such a labelling.

- If a whiteboard marker runs out you can�t bin it, you have to return it to the office and give them the old marker and fill out a request form for a new one. Everything has a request form, and I mean everything.

- Timing: School starts at 7:45 and 99% of the staff arrive at 7:40 - 7:44. What happened to preparation? At the other end of the day, everyone is prepared to stay till late (20:00 - 21:00) even though they might not be doing anything or they have slept throughout the day.

- To have any photocopying done, you should have it ready 4 days in advance and it needs to be approved by your �panel chair� (me), and then approved by a �Prefect of Studies� (there are so many job titles in the middle management I often make mistakes who has to check/approve what - there are at least 9 people that I can think of not including the Vice Principal/Principal).

- The school is NOT child centered at all. Everything (EVERYTHING) is graded. Summative assessment is graded � okay. Formative assessment is graded � something that�s new to me but okay, I�ll do it. Homework � graded. Classwork � graded. Attitude � graded. Effort � graded. Report cards � Grades.

- Parent�s meetings are held on Saturdays and Sundays

- All of the other subjects (except English) follow textbooks � and only textbooks. I swear the kids have school bags that weigh more than they do.

- Reply slips: All letters go home on a Friday (usually 5 � 7 letters) and on Monday the class teacher has to sort every reply slip out into class number (the kids are all numbered 1 to 32), so if that�s 5 reply slips then that is over 150 slips in 5 individual, numbered piles, (to be sorted by 12:00 on Monday)

This is just off the top of my head, I can think of many more but all I want to know is, is this the norm? Are all �local� schools like this (despite my school stressing that it isn�t a local school)?

Cheers in advance, sorry for the rant,

Rick

[oxi]

Sorry for short, abrupt answer after all your efforts writing, but...

It is the norm.

So you're Panel Chair? Well done - perhaps you have more chance than most to make some very minor changes.

[Perilla]

I would't quite call it the norm. I've known many NETs in my 11 years in HK and this sounds worse than most, though as Oxi suggests, far from unusual unfortunately. My wife has to put up with none of this crap, but she's perhaps luckier than most and works at a more enlightened school. Why not transfer? I would!

[Joshua2006]

And there was me thinking that education in Hong Kong had progressed out of the dark ages......

[oxi]

Just for a more detailed comparison:-

My school is CMI

>I have a couple of other gripes � the day seems long, we start at 7:45 and finish at 3:15, (reality it�s 3:30 by the time the kids have packed up and we�ve checked there temperatures etc�- Twice a week I teach 'remedials' till 4:30).

We're 750-430, teaching 810-350. I do drama once a week till 515.
No temperature checks. Uniform and hair-length checks instead.

>We are contracted that we are not allowed to leave the school grounds until 4:30 but that�s just a joke as most of the staff are in till 5:30 � 6:00 anyway.

Ditto. Stretch it to 7 for some.

>It�s the first school that I�ve ever known people to sleep in the staffroom or staff meetings. Is this normal?

Ditto.

>It�s not even looked upon badly at all. Yet if we are late 3 times in a year then we receive a written warning.

We get a nice meeting with the Principal instead.
Can tell you a funny story there: I was late 3 times in the first month. First time I was late my second day of work (7.55) as I understood I had to be there at 8. Next two were because I clocked in at 7.50 and 3 seconds, then 7.51. My principal told me I should phone in if I think I'm going to be late. Anyway, I leave the house 5 minutes earlier now.

>There are some things that used to irritate me but now I�ve just grown used to (such as teaching most Saturdays, endless meetings in Chinese, 15 minutes for lunch etc�)

I do a Saturday morning now and again, maybe once in 6 weeks. Luckily I don't have to do the Chinese meetings (which go on to 7pm usually). I've also got into the habit of refusing to do stay longer than 4.30 if I haven't been given 24 hours notice. Works nicely for me, but I know the local staff can't do the same.

>�Remedial� classes are called �remedial classes� not �Booster or Enhancement� lessons � even on days when these lessons are on, a PA system blasts through the whole school �this is a reminder for remedial students to go to room XXX for their remedial classes� (this is after the same announcement is stated in Chinese � just so all the kids know). In the UK you'd go to court for such a labelling.

In my school, that's about 50% of the students anyway, so less embarrassing I guess.

>If a whiteboard marker runs out you can�t bin it, you have to return it to the office and give them the old marker and fill out a request form for a new one. Everything has a request form, and I mean everything.

Don't have the pen thing. But plenty others like it.

- Timing: School starts at 7:45 and 99% of the staff arrive at 7:40 - 7:44. What happened to preparation? At the other end of the day, everyone is prepared to stay till late (20:00 - 21:00) even though they might not be doing anything or they have slept throughout the day.

I got the same impression at first. But in amongst all that sleeping, they do have a sh*tload of marking to do. And I have colleagues who are up to 1or 2am finishing last minute school requests/demands. Forgive them.
'Prepared to' stay late means 'have to'.

>To have any photocopying done, you should have it ready 4 days in advance and it needs to be approved by your �panel chair� (me), and then approved by a �Prefect of Studies� (there are so many job titles in the middle management I often make mistakes who has to check/approve what - there are at least 9 people that I can think of not including the Vice Principal/Principal).

Not so bad. 1 form, signed by P or VP couple of hours before needed.

>The school is NOT child centered at all. Everything (EVERYTHING) is graded. Summative assessment is graded � okay. Formative assessment is graded � something that�s new to me but okay, I�ll do it. Homework � graded. Classwork � graded. Attitude � graded. Effort � graded. Report cards � Grades.

Ditto

>Parent�s meetings are held on Saturdays and Sundays

Ditto

>All of the other subjects (except English) follow textbooks � and only textbooks. I swear the kids have school bags that weigh more than they do.

For us - including English. Going off textbook possible, but 'must prove relavance'

>Reply slips: All letters go home on a Friday (usually 5 � 7 letters) and on Monday the class teacher has to sort every reply slip out into class number (the kids are all numbered 1 to 32), so if that�s 5 reply slips then that is over 150 slips in 5 individual, numbered piles, (to be sorted by 12:00 on Monday)

Nope, don't have that quite so bad.

>sorry for the rant,

No problem, take it with a pinch of salt. You can't change it all. Maybe a bit. Thank your luck that however bad it is for you, it's worse for local teachers.

[oxi]

Sorry, I've just noticed a shocking amount of typos in my previous post. More than I care to correct. Excuse me, I have to go examine F4 group discussions now for a couple of hours.

[Perilla]

Personally, I'd have a hard time dealing with some of this stuff. Granted you might get on well with kids and staff, but I see no harm in transferring to another school if you're not happy with some aspects, and the kids and staff might be better at the new destination. Of course, there's also a chance of ending up even worse off - as happened to a mate of mine.

[RiverMystic]

Hi Rick.

I do feel for you. Your school sounds like a nightmare. The first school I taught at in HK was like that in many ways. I absolutely hated it. I have no idea how I lasted 2 years there. Everyone was miserable, and the staff were not that friendly. So I took the risk and jumped ship. I attended heaps of interviews before I took another job. Eventually I signed with a much better school and had a much better time. It was a band 3 school, so expectations were low. Still, most the kids were nice. (warning: some band 3 schools have horror kids/classes).

I didn't put up with most of the stuff you talk about at my second school, and it was great. I didn't even have to attend cantonese meetings on Friday evenings till 8pm (boy, did that push my buttons!).

Try changing schools. If you are an intuitive kind of person, trust your gut instincts about the "vibe" of a place. That's what I did and made the right choice. Of course, speak to the previous NET if possible.

One caveat: in the current economic environment it may be more competitive. When I looked around (a few years ago) I got offered 4 jobs in 2 days. I was beating them off with a big stick.

Generally speaking though, don't stay somewhere that you are miserable if you have other choices. Life is too short.

RM

[RickinHK]

Dear All,

Thanks for the replies. The first thread topic I blasted out in pure frustration. The school does have some redeeming qualities. I have a great team of English teachers who crack on with their work and really care for the kids.

It's just the school and it's policies that are fixed in granite. Nothing get changed because everything has to go through the principal and she is known (I was warned about her after I accepted the position by a colleague from my old school) to be an iron maiden. And, she is! Everyone - office staff, students, teachers, VP ...etc are terrified of her.

I can't transfer as I'm not on the NET Scheme, I was employed directly by the school. I am thinking of applying to the scheme this month (the application form is sitting on my desk), but I am scared that I'll jump into a worse school as I've heard some horror stories from NET friends. All of my NET friends either HATE their job with a passion or LOVE their job to bits there seems to be no-one in the middle.

I'm currently working on producing some EEG teaching materials that is a two-year project from the EDB so although my contract finishes in August, I wouldn't want to let the school down by only completing half a project.

On saying that, I will be looking in the SCMP today and in the upcoming weeks to see if anything crops up. Unfortunately, I've had some bad experiences with ESF so they're off the cards. But fingers crossed, and let's see what comes up.

Cheers,

Rick

[Joshua2006]

Go international.....seems to be a better option in many ways as you are not being tied in to the Hong Kong mindset but rather an international way of thinking....

[Sublime]

Christ! I think I'll give HK a miss.

[RedDinosaur]

Wow... this sounds like a lot of garbage and red tape to deal with. Why do people teach in HK again? Is taking work home to grade considered insane? I've always found it more comfortable to grade at home than at work.

[sistercream]

[RedDinosaur]

[oxi]