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randyteach
Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 24
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 Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject: question: schools who don't reply |
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I'm just curious: how long do you normally wait for a school/recruiting firm to reply to your application?
I've applied to a whole bunch, mostly based in the Middle East, and I haven't heard from them in almost two weeks now.
Same with online esl positions -- does it mean they're not interested? Or would you email them back to remind them you've applied?
I should say I have teaching experience in Korea, and I have a CELTA as well as a bachelor's degree.
It's getting frustrating, but I'm wondering if this is a normal experience for other esl teachers. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Depending on each country's way, I'd say don't expect any response in less than 2 weeks. If they have a deadline for applications, they will probably wait for that and then acknowledge only the promising candidates. There may be too many applicants to make it practical to respond, too. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| With just a CELTA, BA, and Korea experience, you probably won't make the cut for many Middle East openings. If you haven't already, you might try the country specific boards below for more info. |
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justcolleen
Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Egypt, baby!
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Two weeks is not a long wait.
Time moves much slower in the Middle East than it does in the rest of the world. Also, your CV is probably buried in an inbox full of spam and responses from completely unqualified candidates who throw CVs at every help wanted ad because they're free and they can.
Patience is a virtue - particularly in the ME. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| I've had replies within hours and I've had replied months later. It all depends. for the middle East, I've heard that things take A LONG time. |
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smithrn1983
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 320
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| I've always had success sending follow-up emails. Your resume is just one of hundreds the school might have received, so sending a follow-up makes you stand out a bit. Having said that, Spiral is largely correct about your quals for the ME. Two weeks, though, doesn't strike me as an extremely long time to wait for a response. Like naturegirl, I've also waited months for a response. |
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El Chupacabra
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Location: Kwangchow
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: Re: question: schools who don't reply |
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| randyteach wrote: |
I'm just curious: how long do you normally wait for a school/recruiting firm to reply to your application?
I've applied to a whole bunch, mostly based in the Middle East, and I haven't heard from them in almost two weeks now.
Same with online esl positions -- does it mean they're not interested? Or would you email them back to remind them you've applied?
I should say I have teaching experience in Korea, and I have a CELTA as well as a bachelor's degree.
It's getting frustrating, but I'm wondering if this is a normal experience for other esl teachers. |
You've got to be aggressive. And you've alos got to understand that your application is screened by an HR department who specialize in pigeonholing candidates.
To get past HR, make sure your file is complete and error-free before submitting on the institution's HR system. Always have a good cover letter that guides the HR person through your resume/CV.
And to speed things up, don't be afraid to use that thingie that allows you to talk to others between continents. |
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Warning Bells
Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Location: Always Changes
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:25 am Post subject: |
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^ Being aggressive in the application process for a post in the ME will get you nowhere! They'll not even bother to answer your emails and throw your documents in file 13 if you continue to pester them.
If there's an opening and you fit the criteria for what they want, they'll usually hire on short notice. They don't always read the cover letter. They are more interested in your CV, education and years of teaching experience, especially in the ME.
El Chupacabra, you don't sound like you have any ME teaching experience. BTW, departments usually make the hiring decision not HR. HR functions like a paper pushing mill. They may not even be the first people to see all of the CVs. It's usually the head of the department who sees those or his/her assistant. |
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El Chupacabra
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Location: Kwangchow
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Warning Bells wrote: |
^ Being aggressive in the application process for a post in the ME will get you nowhere! They'll not even bother to answer your emails and throw your documents in file 13 if you continue to pester them.
If there's an opening and you fit the criteria for what they want, they'll usually hire on short notice. They don't always read the cover letter. They are more interested in your CV, education and years of teaching experience, especially in the ME.
El Chupacabra, you don't sound like you have any ME teaching experience. BTW, departments usually make the hiring decision not HR. HR functions like a paper pushing mill. They may not even be the first people to see all of the CVs. It's usually the head of the department who sees those or his/her assistant. |
Teaching experience is irrelevant to a recruiting question. I have been recruited by Middle Eastern institutions thrice in the last 4 years, using the pro-active method described in my previous post. In each case, an ME job offer gave me more leverage in negotiating terms elsewhere.
In all cases where I've tried the sitting-on-my-duff-and-whining method, which apparently you advocate, I have failed to secure an ME job offer. Paraphrasing the great George Bush, I call that a pattern.
Your paper-pushing analogy actually supports my argument. HR decides which candidates will be seen by those who hire. Logically, if your application is not pushed there, it will not be seen there. Use the telephone people; don't just clickety-click with your mouse and hope to be noticed.
Caveat emptor on the sit-back-and-whine-after-sending-only-a-CV approach. The cover letter is the user's guide to the CV; without it how do you expect to shine above all the other candidates? Always follow-up an application with a phone call. Always follow up an interview with a thank you letter. This is, like, Business English 101, is it not?
Market yourselves, because no one else is looking out for #1. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Warning Bells and Mythical Beast,
You're both right - you do need to be persistent BUT not "aggressive." Especially in the Middle East, you must always be polite and very diplomatic in your follow-ups.
Regards,
John (aka Ms Manners) |
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Warning Bells
Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Location: Always Changes
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| El Chupacabra wrote: |
In all cases where I've tried the sitting-on-my-duff-and-whining method, which apparently you advocate, I have failed to secure an ME job offer. |
Then maybe your CV isn't good enough to stick out. I just got an offer letter from a highly respectable employer today. I never emailed them. They noticed my CV posted and I was what they were looking for. I get offers at least every other week from good-to-decent employers all over the ME.
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| Your paper-pushing analogy actually supports my argument. HR decides which candidates will be seen by those who hire. Logically, if your application is not pushed there, it will not be seen there. |
No it doesn't. Perhaps you should go back and read what I wrote again. HR most definately does not always decide who gets a chance and who doesn't. More often than not, it's the head of the department who sits down and goes through the emails before he alone decides who makes the cut and who doesn't. HR people are often thought of as worker bees who do as they are told after the candidates are given an offer. HR types up the documents and does the grunt work to get the visas and such. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| Warning Bells wrote: |
| El Chupacabra wrote: |
In all cases where I've tried the sitting-on-my-duff-and-whining method, which apparently you advocate, I have failed to secure an ME job offer. |
Then maybe your CV isn't good enough to stick out. I just got an offer letter from a highly respectable employer today. I never emailed them. They noticed my CV posted and I was what they were looking for. I get offers at least every other week from good-to-decent employers all over the ME. . |
Where are you posting your CV? |
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El Chupacabra
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Location: Kwangchow
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:06 am Post subject: |
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<double-post, sorry> 
Last edited by El Chupacabra on Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:14 am; edited 5 times in total |
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El Chupacabra
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Location: Kwangchow
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Warning Bells wrote: |
| Then maybe your CV isn't good enough to stick out. |
I keep my CV zipped up in my trousers, thank you very much.
| Warning Bells wrote: |
| Perhaps you should go back and read what I wrote again. |
No need, as your proposition has already been confuted. |
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Warning Bells
Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Posts: 87
Location: Always Changes
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Warning Bells wrote: |
| El Chupacabra wrote: |
In all cases where I've tried the sitting-on-my-duff-and-whining method, which apparently you advocate, I have failed to secure an ME job offer. |
Then maybe your CV isn't good enough to stick out. I just got an offer letter from a highly respectable employer today. I never emailed them. They noticed my CV posted and I was what they were looking for. I get offers at least every other week from good-to-decent employers all over the ME. . |
Where are you posting your CV? |
I post my CV on the typical TEFL websites. I'm not sure if I can list them here. This website should improve in that regard as I don't feel like posting on here every week to keep it up at the top. I don't need to go through that 'aggressive' measure just to get a job offer. The other sites are working just fine. A lot of good employers don't advertise their openings. They prefer to search through the data bases of those sites and not waste the time of their assistants or HR department.
Some people need to get with the modern times, El Chupacabra. It sounds like you are reading books from two decades ago. |
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