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Forward 5
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Posts: 13
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 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: Movin' on up? |
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Hello all-
This board is the best.
I've posted in this forum under another section and I've searched around- true to it's statement policy, no trolls! 
I'm currently enrolled in an unrelated master's degree program but I'm leaning more towards a TESOL MA to beginning next year.
My question is more incompatible with my current position but it's still of future importance to me nonetheless;
1) How common are overseas advancement opportunities within TESL beyond just teaching positions?
2) Toward that end- what are some common necessary qualifications for advancement?
3) Is it more hassle than compensation?
Thanks all.  |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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Some general answers to your general questions (overseas is a big place, and not all the answers are the same!!):
1. DELTA is often used to get Director of Studies and teacher training positions.
2. Related MA (MA TESL/TEFL or MA Applied Linguistics) is useful for the above, plus for university work.
3. Teaching (core subject, not English language) credentials and experience for international schools.
As to 'how common' such position are: there's competition. More in the more desirable locations, less in the lesser ones.
eg: just getting an MA isn't going to land 'you' a great job automatically
Really plum jobs normally require local contacts, reputation, language skills, and probably contacts. These are developed through a longer-term commitment to a region. There are some exceptions: the Middle East (pays well, but can afford to demand top-notch quals and experience, but do hire from abroad) and some Asian job openings also recruit sight-unseen. |
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Forward 5
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks.
Middle east was my long term plan but it's two roads diverging in the woods that's getting me- meaning; I believe a TESOL MA will help get my foot in the door for an overseas job but I also don't want to render my current MA useless through relentless pursuit of one avenue since (theoritically) I'll have more than 1 MA at my disposal.
Playing it by ear is always hard for a person like me but it sounds like that's exactly the kind of thing that's needed.
No easy way or quick fix, basically- as you've said. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| ME: better jobs normally require field-related MA, I believe. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:17 am Post subject: Re: Movin' on up? |
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| Forward 5 wrote: |
<edited for brevity>
1) How common are overseas advancement opportunities within TESL beyond just teaching positions?
2) Toward that end- what are some common necessary qualifications for advancement?
3) Is it more hassle than compensation?
Thanks all. |
1) It really depends on what you mean by advancement.
=If you mean moving into admin positions then it is possible.
=If you mean getting rich - you picked the wrong profession.
=If you mean having a comfortable lifestyle and networking into a position that you enjoy then yes.
=If you mean further advancement into academia (PhD and research) then certainly.
2) It is region and job specific. Where in the EFL/ESL field (focus not geography) were you thinking about going?
-MATESOL / MA applied linguistics gets you a visiting professorship in lots of places. (you won't find a tenured position).
-M.Ed or MBA/BA.Mgmt coupled with teaching qualifications will give you the ability to get into admin positions in k-12 scenarios.
-PhD for research positions.
-CELTA/DELTA for upward mobility in language training centers.
3) Maybe, again, depends on where you go and what your goals are.
-If you need to pay off those student loans it is OK.
-If you want a decent lifestyle with decent savings for your later years or a healthy bank account for your return home then it is certainly do-able.
-If you are doing it strictly for the compensation factor, this is the WRONG profession to be in. There are NO RICH TEACHERS.
It is more hassle than it is worth? Some of us actually did our 2nd and 3rd undergrad degrees and our 2nd MAs for reasons of personal growth and self actualization. Many are not so altruistic. It is YOU dependent.
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| MATESOL / MA applied linguistics gets you a visiting professorship in lots of places. (you won't find a tenured position). |
The majority of my colleagues in both Canada and Europe are tenured, and I just turned it down.
Again, things are not the same worldwide. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| MATESOL / MA applied linguistics gets you a visiting professorship in lots of places. (you won't find a tenured position). |
The majority of my colleagues in both Canada and Europe are tenured, and I just turned it down.
Again, things are not the same worldwide. |
and since where was "lots of places" = worldwide?
give me a break.
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Your original statement 'you won't find a tenured position' was unqualified, so I read it as all-encompassing. Did you mean 'in lots of places, you won't...?' It was unclear to me, honestly. |
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Forward 5
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:45 am Post subject: |
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As you said;
If you need to pay off those student loans it is OK.
-If you want a decent lifestyle with decent savings for your later years or a healthy bank account for your return home then it is certainly do-able.
BINGO! That about sums it all up, except I would stay and retire abroad if I could. I love my country but my heart is always elsewhere.
Here in the US there is so much fear mongering but in reality (as I've experienced life abroad) 90% of every nationality I've met were decent and kind people. Living here in the US seems to be draining my spirit pretty bad. We're all getting twisted up pretty bad if we'll all be honest with each other. Everything is all about "me" and it's disheartening.
Experiencing cultural events abroad, enjoying the food and spirits, travel and kind people... it's all awesome stuff.
Even if I only have a shoe-string budget, as long as I can make student loan payments and hop a train and go exploring on the weekends, what more could I want? Really- that's what it boils down to for me, not a big house, not a fast car... (well, alright the fast car part- if you insist).
When I'm old it'll all come down to memories and recalling my experiences. I don't want those memories to be of chasing illusions when no amount of money will be able to replace the time already spent. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| as long as I can make student loan payments and hop a train and go exploring on the weekends, what more could I want? Really- that's what it boils down to for me, not a big house, not a fast car... (well, alright the fast car part- if you insist). |
Well, it's not European reality. Breaking into the market (talking Central/Eastern Europe where US citizens can get legal work permits) doesn't pay enough for
car
apartment (flat)
a new bicycle would be a pretty major purchase
and paying off debt back home isn't going to be feasible.
'My' stomping grounds are really subsistence level only for the first few years, even with more than entry level quals.
But Asia may work, from what I've heard. |
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Forward 5
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:08 am Post subject: |
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I didn't really mean a fast car, at all.
Just enough to pay bills (student loans) for the first few years as it would be with any job.
After school loan debt- it's all about living abroad and moving around.
The chance to experience new things is what life's about.
There will be ESL jobs and that, in itself, is a form of job security to me. |
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Forward 5
Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:11 am Post subject: |
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Asia would work for the first few years.
I'm picking up speedskating; Korea and China is the place to be for that.
After that, the Middle East would probably be the plan. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:29 am Post subject: |
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you kind of missed a part:
| tttompatz wrote: |
2) It is region and job specific. Where in the EFL/ESL field (focus not geography) were you thinking about going?
-MATESOL / MA applied linguistics gets you a visiting professorship in lots of places. (you won't find a tenured position in many countries because of visa issues).
-M.Ed or MBA/BA.Mgmt coupled with teaching qualifications will give you the ability to get into admin positions in k-12 scenarios.
-PhD for research positions.
-CELTA/DELTA for upward mobility in language training centers.
. |
And it makes a BIG difference.
Universities in Asia as an example pay well per class hour but the hours are usually really low (6-12 classes per week) so the jingle at the end of the month is also pretty low.
Decent k-12 schools pay very well (net jingle at the end of the month) but class loads and work levels are higher (40 hour week with about 20 classes per week as the norm).
If you get into admin positions the salaries are very decent (US$50k-100k or more depending on the country) and the living expenses are very low ($15k per year or less - again depending on the country) giving you savings on the order of US$20-40k (or more) per year.
Language academies, unless you get into management, tend to be entry level at best. Wages can be decent (depending on your marketability and the country you are in) but work loads are high (30 classes per week).
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| tttompatz wrote: |
| Universities in Asia as an example pay well per class hour but the hours are usually really low (6-12 classes per week) so the jingle at the end of the month is also pretty low. |
In Japan each class is 90 minutes long, so even 6 classes per week means 9 hours in the classroom. If you have 2 classes per day and classes are back to back, that's pretty tough. I have one day with 3 classes and 3 days with 1 class each (but I also have a lot of other responsibilities that take up my time).
Jingle at the end of the month? What do you consider low, tttompatz?
| Quote: |
| Decent k-12 schools pay very well (net jingle at the end of the month) but class loads and work levels are higher (40 hour week with about 20 classes per week as the norm). |
Pay in Japan is lower than uni per month for most public and private school jobs. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Jingle at the end of the month? What do you consider low, tttompatz? |
Low is relative (country dependent) but any job that doesn't allow a comfortable (also relative) lifestyle AND allow savings on the order of US$15-20k per anum is low paying for qualified individuals.
As direct examples, jobs paying (monthly):
200-250k yen (with no benefits) in Japan,
<6000rmb in China,
2.0-2.3 million won (plus housing and perks) in Korea,
35k baht in Thailand,
40k TWD in Taiwan
would all be considered LOW (typical entry level ESL wages).
. |
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