Job Discussion Forums

[Homeroamer]

Hello all, This is a rather open ended query, but I feel like it could open a wider conversation regarding the social and cultural norms in Vietnam.

What sort of norms govern social interactions? For example, eye contact in western countries is generally respectful whereas in other countries it can be seen as confrontational or disrespectful. Is it customary to shake hands upon meeting new people? kiss cheeks?

Also, what sort of social norms govern teacher student relationships?

Let's see if that can start a good discussion. Thanks!

[Jbhughes]

I would say that aside from face and family (although inexplicitly linked) is age and social status.

Whether people are equal or below/above each other will affect how they interact significantly with regards to language (polite particles and pronouns for above) and to a lesser extend some customs such as passing something to someone higher than you with 2 hands rather than one.

[snollygoster]

The brutal reality, and the one that is hardest to accept is that women are second class citizens.
Even Viet women will tell you that men are smarter, better looking, more clever etc, just because they are men.
Women are definately treated as if their head is just a place to keep their helmet. The man has the final say in everything, and the woman is expected to be subserviant to the male, and endure his drunkeness and his beatings and his playing around, but she may not do similar.

Of course this is changing, but it will be quite a long time before Vietnam has any real liberated women as a big section of the community, in a society that is so dependent on their hard work and sensible attitude compared to their male counterparts.

Viet women rock! But they are stifled by the little emperor attitude.

[bludevil96]

When addressing people, "Anh, Em, Chi" is formal. However, "anh or chi" is also used to address a younger person than you in a higher capacity i.e. Director, CEO, etc., as a sign of respect FOR THE POSITION. The most common error that expats make is that they address all wait staff as "em" even though the person is much older than them; that's disrespectful. You still should address any older persons as "anh or chi" regardless of title.

When you are visiting, look at where they keep the sandals. If you see that it's kept outside, then don't walk in their house wearing yours. When sitting at a meal, the oldest person eats first unless he's asking you to start. Giving and receiving anything should be with both hands or one hand touching the arm of the hand giving the item, especially to an older person. When you knock glass or beer bottles, if the person is older than you, your glass or beer bottle should be lower at the point of contact.

Vietnamese don't bow; that's Thai and Japanese. They shake hands but sometimes will be in your personal space. They don't do kisses on the cheek or hugs for greetings, especially to a woman. During a get together, a lot of times, men will be with men and the women will with other women. You'll see this in church as well. The genders are separated with females on the left and males on the right.

These are Vietnamese customs and they are aware that foreigners don't know so they are not offended. But it would be a huge deal if you're Vietnamese and would be subjected questions about your parents and upbringing if you are ignorant of this.

@Snolly: Yes, it is changing, thank Goodness but rather slowly. It's ironic considering that Vietnamese women are some of the pioneers of the country in leadership as well as other areas. This has to be one of your rare "positive" posts about VN. You must be kicking the booze. Wait...earthquake and hurricane on the east coast of U.S. Now I know.

[deadlift]

[deadlift]

[snollygoster]

Blue devil said:
@Snolly: Yes, it is changing, thank Goodness but rather slowly. It's ironic considering that Vietnamese women are some of the pioneers of the country in leadership as well as other areas. This has to be one of your rare "positive" posts about VN. You must be kicking the booze. Wait...earthquake and hurricane on the east coast of U.S. Now I know.

Viet women are the backbone of the country and they have my respect-they always have had it- I go to the market and its easy to see who is the "brains" behind finance and business- Its NOT the hubby sucking on the beer and his fag watching football on TV while his wife works hard and gives him the credit for her hard work.

Rare positive posts on Vietnam?- Yes I guess so- Kicking the booze- I do not and have never drunk- hurricanes and earthqueakes in America? Not my part of the world so it has no effect on me.

Women definately are the leaders in Vietnam, but the society gives the credit to the men that the women support so well. I hope soon the women will step out of the shadows and show some of these chauvinists that their day in the sun is coming to an end.

I used to point out in English classes that women are smarter, stronger, and can bear more pain than a man, (all scientifically provable facts by the way- not opinions),and its time for the liberated Viet woman to step up to the plate. Reaction? "Yes- I will be a liberated Viet woman-if my husband will allow it!" Oh dear!

[bludevil96]

I'm making good progress with my Vietnamese, I'm not about to claim total mastery over the subtleties of pronoun use. But I know enough to know that this advice is inaccurate.

[toiyeuthitmeo]

Some assorted bits of experience...

Vietnamese males at certain venues like beer gardens (bia tuoi places) and outdoor restaurants will often beckon foreign males over to share beers. It's generally a curious and friendly motivation, and can be fun, but also tedious at times given the language barrier and repetitiveness of such encounters.

"Mot Hai Ba" as you've heard no doubt, is the cheers, and you will constantly be commanded, in good fun but with somewhat serious expectations of compliance, to drain 100%, 50%, or whatever remains in you glass at the time, indicated in Vietnamese or with a finger on the glass.

When meeting Vietnamese who can speak some English, immediate questions that might seem a bit taboo in our countries to ask a stranger include "How old are you?" "Are you married?" "Do you have a girlfriend/boyfriend?" "Where do you live?" and "How much do you earn?" I've asked some Vietnamese students of mine if VN people ask each other such questions upon first meeting, and the idea is not so much, this line of questioning seems to apply mostly to meeting foreigners, and the motivation can vary from curiosity to sizing up your status and bank to see what they might be able to help you part with.

Most "good" Vietnamese young ladies will not go out on a date, or go out for fun even, with a male unless there is some kind of chaperone along as well, usually a relative of hers or a friend of hers. At least in the beginning of a relationship.

[LettersAthruZ]

[Homeroamer]

This is all informative, thanks so much for the responses, and please keep them coming! I will be arriving in HCMC in Oct., and I hope to hit the ground running trying to develop some basic tools of cross-cultural communication.

How is eye contact in social situations handled? I have no experience yet with Viet culture, but can attest that eye contact in Japanese culture is a very different dynamic. As well, with my Senegalese host Father, it was not until I learned to make only passing eye contact that I was regarded warmly by him. Radically different cultures, but I mean them only as examples.

Also, it could be interesting to incorporate into this conversation a bit about the Vietnamese sense of humor. I know that being able to crack very simple cultural jokes and make light pop-culture references has greatly assisted me in the past overcome a language difficiency with new people. Would you say that the humor of the culture is rich or is a more serious demeanor common?

toiyeuthitmeo, thank you for reply as well. perhaps this could expand out into a conversation on beer garden ettiquette (or lack thereof) and the social routines that are common. maybe best for another post, but worth a shot.

[CThomas]

[CThomas]

[snollygoster]

Right CT: When the chips are down, the WOMAN holds the real power, but she allows the man to put up his front. I am talking about the normal Viet family, not the "hero drivers" and the drunks from the city in their Mercedes benz- Party pretty boys.

I have a Viet wife, and she is from the countryside. Her mum is just a lovely person who asks for nothing, and my wife is also a lovely woman who, although acknowledging that her life has been made more comfortable by hitching up with a "tay", also expects nothing.

In general, Viet men are a useless lot (of course there are exceptions), and if it wasn't for the fact their women are strong and are the real head of the house hold, I doubt the men could survive.

I spent a lot of time in the countryside, and I certainly observed the power of women. They are what I would call "quiet achievers" who generally "allow" their men folk to be in control, or at least put on a show of being in control. A "face" issue.

If only the women would step out into the light, and stop letting their men folk get away with this, Vietnam would progress in leaps and bounds.
Can you imagine a woman President? Viet men would cringe, but I would just love to see it. It would give me the confidence to live in Vietnam, knowing that party line decisions would be made on practical lines instead of on blurred personal "control" issues.

[CThomas]