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Mamainak
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 31
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 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:55 pm Post subject: What are my chances of getting a job? Doors seem closed... |
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Hello everyone,
I'm obviously a new member...Last week I completed my full-time CELTA course, don't know the grade yet, but that's not relevant for this post.
Our tutors told us we can start looking for a job right away and so I did. At the moment I have a job (not TEFL) and was planning on going abroad as a teacher this autumn.
But from the first job ad I saw I have a feeling that's not going to happen so soon.
Here's the deal: I'm a non-native speaker, I don't come from a country with English as a main language, I don't hold a USA/CAD/UK/AUS/EU/NZ passport/citizenship, I don't have a university diploma and I obviously don't have any experience yet.
These seem to be the requirements I've encountered so far, if not all, then one or a combination of two are included for sure. I find it frustrating that someone could get a teaching job simply on the grounds of being a native speaker, without any training! 
Could you give me any advice and hope?
I appreciate every comment. Thank you
ETA: I might mention that I also have Cambridge Proficiency and over 2 years experience in childcare...if that could be an advantage?
Last edited by Mamainak on Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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Without a uni degree and without citizenship in a native English speaking country and without any teaching experience, your chances of teaching English are extremely limited to zero.
What is your nationality?
Where do you want to go?
When?
How many years of your education have been all in English? (This is a requirement for Japan, 12 years are needed for the visa.)
You might be able to get certain types of visas which would allow PT work (student visa, cultural activities visa), but I can't think of anything else. |
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Mamainak
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| My nationality is Croatian and I am not too picky on where I'll go...As long as I travel and get teaching experience (and am paid for it). Only education in English was my CELTA, I finished high school back in Croatia. I was planning on leaving this job in September/October but who knows now... |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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It would be difficult for you to compete on most of the European market (the job market I know fairly well). Native speakers with CELTA (and usually a university degree) are the norm here for entry-level positions, and the job market is pretty competitive all around.
Do keep in mind, however, that being a non-native speaker of fluent, educated English is not a drawback on many (enlightened) job markets. Successful learners of English bring quite a lot if insight into the process to a classroom, and I know quite a few language schools which try to maintain a balance between native and non-native English speaking teachers.
You may find that your appeal as a non-native speaking teachers is greatest at lower levels, but so far as region, I can't really offer any destination that should definitely be open to you (they may exist, of course - I'm just not sure where would be a 'sure shot' for you). |
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Mamainak
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hi spiral78
thanks for your almost-optimistic comment 
My English teacher (who prepared me for CPE) told me that she doesn't think being a non-native speaker is a drawback, it can actually be an advantage because non-native speakers are better able to analyse the language and understand it much better. Many people told me that it's easy to get a teaching job with CELTA and I was super excited about it.
The only thing I didn't realise before, is that all those people who gave me advice about CELTA and teaching, were actually native speakers and holders of passports from an English speaking countries, so they didn't even realise what obstacles I might encounter.
I wasn't even hoping for a job in Europe, I know the competition is huge, not to mention the whole EU exclusivity thing.
I hope the CELTA doesn't turn out useless for me. |
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wiganer
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:39 am Post subject: Re: What are my chances of getting a job? Doors seem closed. |
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| Mamainak wrote: |
I find it frustrating that someone could get a teaching job simply on the grounds of being a native speaker, without any training!
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Well you have only had a month of training yourself, hardly compensates for the fact you are a non-native speaker and your lack of degree.
If you wanted to learn Japanese - and it was between a Japanese native speaking teacher and someone from Sweden who mastered the language from middle school onwards, both had similar qualifications - who would you hire to teach you?
But I will give you some good news, the fact that you are white will get you a job in China, I know a lot of non-native speakers working here as English teachers. |
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Perilla
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 792
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:19 am Post subject: Re: What are my chances of getting a job? Doors seem closed. |
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| wiganer wrote: |
| But I will give you some good news, the fact that you are white will get you a job in China, I know a lot of non-native speakers working here as English teachers. |
Indeed. And the same may apply in other Asian countries, and probably the less-developed the better. I imagine parts of Indonesia and Thailand would be a possibility, ditto Laos and other backwaters. Some of these places might even be where I'd actually choose to go, if I could start out again ... |
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MisterButtkins
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1221
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| You can get a job in China if you look around enough. Your written English seems good. It probably won't be the best job ever though. |
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TwinCentre
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 273
Location: Mokotow
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:30 am Post subject: |
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To the OP:
If you are a non-native speaker, then I have to say that your written English is perfecto and then some!
Some organisiations define 'Native Speaker' as someone who speaks and writes perfectly - at native speaker level, without caring where you were born. (As it should be, I think). The British Council tends to be one of them, from my experience (not sure of their current policy).
So, don't lose hope...I know many teachers born in non-English speaking countries who now hold good positions - one is a teacher trainer for IH. |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Some language schools in Italy hire non-native speakers (generally Italians with a good level of English) and for some, accent is more of an issue than at others. As others have already pointed out, you might get the YL, or tutoring type jobs - neither of these particularly well paid. (Not that language schools in Italy pay a bomb anyway.) |
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dutchman
Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Perhaps you can try your luck in Latin America... |
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Mamainak
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: What are my chances of getting a job? Doors seem closed. |
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| wiganer wrote: |
Well you have only had a month of training yourself, hardly compensates for the fact you are a non-native speaker and your lack of degree.
If you wanted to learn Japanese - and it was between a Japanese native speaking teacher and someone from Sweden who mastered the language from middle school onwards, both had similar qualifications - who would you hire to teach you?
But I will give you some good news, the fact that you are white will get you a job in China, I know a lot of non-native speakers working here as English teachers. |
Month of training is better than nothing, right? And most of the people are expected to go and teach straight after completing the course, so it should count for something. Or do you think it's different for non-native speakers? It's not like I came to learn English on that course, I left it with pretty much the same amount of knowledge I came with, I just learned teaching techniques. I also have Cambridge Proficiency to prove my level of English.
Do I get bonus points if I say I know what idioms, prepositions and modals are and can explain all of the tenses? From my experience, most of the native speakers don't.
I'm not trying to demean native speakers, I just don't think it's correct to assume that native speakers can teach you English simply because they are native speakers.
And native Japanese speaker vs. Swedish Japanese speaker: I'd hire the one who is better able to teach it. What's the point of having a native speaker when they can't transfer their knowledge? The advantage of native speakers is the authentic pronunciation and they won't make mistakes, though. Unless, of course, they speak in dialect or colloquial language.
Last edited by Mamainak on Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:50 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Mamainak
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Teacher in Rome wrote: |
| Some language schools in Italy hire non-native speakers (generally Italians with a good level of English) and for some, accent is more of an issue than at others. As others have already pointed out, you might get the YL, or tutoring type jobs - neither of these particularly well paid. (Not that language schools in Italy pay a bomb anyway.) |
I barely have an accent anyway. I've been living in London for the past 2 and a half years and most of the foreigners think I'm English. 
Yes, but the issue there is that, to be employed within EU you need to hold an EU passport, which I don't. I have a friend living in Italy though, and will ask her to ask some of her local language schools for info.
Last edited by Mamainak on Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mamainak
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone for your replies, I'll keep looking.
Could you tell me some of the good websites, where I might actually find ads that don't require degree or native-speakers? I'm checking tefl.com, esljobsworld.com and dave's esl cafe job board.
I'm not insisting on super paid jobs but I'm afraid I wouldn't like to be paid misery (just like anyone). But if I was in a different situation (i.e. not having debts) I'd go anywhere, just to travel and get experience. Since I'd need to send some money home I'd need a decently paid job. :/ |
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Mamainak
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| TwinCentre wrote: |
To the OP:
If you are a non-native speaker, then I have to say that your written English is perfecto and then some!
Some organisiations define 'Native Speaker' as someone who speaks and writes perfectly - at native speaker level, without caring where you were born. (As it should be, I think). The British Council tends to be one of them, from my experience (not sure of their current policy).
So, don't lose hope...I know many teachers born in non-English speaking countries who now hold good positions - one is a teacher trainer for IH. |
Thank you for your compliment.
In order to describe my spoken English (because you can't tell that from my writing), I'll say that most of the teachers at the college where I took my CELTA wouldn't even realise I'm a non-native speaker at first, only after a while, when they'd hear me pronounce something a bit differently.
I found it funny how my students (from teaching practice) would think I'm actually English. 
I agree that there should be a difference between native speaker and native speaker level of English. Unfortunately, most of the countries don't care. |
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