Job Discussion Forums

[Neon5]

As the subject of the thread suggests, I am posed with a problem if I am to establish myself in China at the beginning of the Autumn semester. The main problem is in regards to the FEC and/or the likelihood of employers being put off.

I have recently graduated from university but am awaiting my degree certificate; I may not receive this till much later at the end of September due to the fact that I have to retake an exam (which I will certainly pass) and this will leave me with a BSc 2.1. I am aware that there are many job opportunities particularly in the school sector that begin before the date I receive my certification. So there are a few options and I want to check which are plausible:

-1. The FEC: is it required from the the absolute beginning of work? I assume that any employment is illegal under the tourist visa, regardless of whether one is waiting for the FEC or not, and thus will be waiting till the beginning of November.

-2. FEC requirements: in so far, I have a TEFL certificate and a Diploma (certificate, 2 years - not a degree). If this may be satifactory enough to obtain a FEC then fantastic! But I get the impression I need a degree.

3. If I can meet the criteria for the FEC, I assume I am still not on equal ground with someone who has a degree. If so, will employers be willing to accept a letter or take my word (perhaps with references from my university) that I will certainly be obtaining a degree by November at the latest?

4. And lastly I assume that an employer who accepts me with these conditions is more likely to organise an unreliable FEC?

If anyone can clarify the situation for me, particularly in regards to the FEC I would be most grateful. Points 3 and 4 I have made should I reach the eligibility of a FEC without a degree, otherwise I will obtain info in regards to general employment nearer to the time in September.

edit: Z Visa replaced with FEC

[Lobster]

The problems will not end with the Z visa, which is temporary. The problem will be obtaining your Foreign Expert's Certificate (FEC), which would be required to obtain the Resident's Permit (RP) which will replace the Z visa within 30 days of arrival.

Here's the problem; no diploma, no FEC and thus no RP. Therefore no legal working status. Certainly there are some backwater places that may be able to get you one, but that's pretty dicey. You don't want to come over here and then find out you can't work. Most provinces require:

A degree
A TEFL Cert of some sort
2 years' documented post-grad working experience
Pass a medical exam

If you don't meet these criteria, you're basically dead in the water or rolling the dice. The early Nov. start date isn't as much of a problem.

No, the employer and Chinese government are NOT going to take your word for it. Even people who meet all the criteria and have all their ducks in a row sometimes have difficulties with the bureaucracy here.

RED

[Neon5]

FEC it is, not Z Visa. Rolling mistake there.

Interesting about the 2 years post-grad work experience. That sounds problematic, although it seems to me that the degree can surpass that in some cases, perhaps like you say it varies from province to province.

In regards to the verbal assurance of sorts, I would not be attempting such a thing with provincial authorities but rather with potential employers. However I imagine it'll probably be most beneficial for me to wait till I have certificate in hand and get the FEC and hence have the job sorted all at once.

[Miles Smiles]

Whether your province will accept you without the 2 years teaching experience is really irrelevant. On the surface, you have little to offer anyone. If your students are lucky, you'll spend half of your time trying to figure out what to do in class and the other half trying to make it work.

My school just jettisoned someone in your situation. He couldn't teach. His personality did not interest his students. Not knowing how to use the textbook, he spent a lot of time talking about comic book super heroes and vampires, then brought board games for his class to play.

When he met his girlfriend, his work really took a dive.

Then he was tanked and he was sure that one of his FT colleagues did him in.

Now, he's working 40 hours for a mill so he can stay with his girlfriend who (do doubt) will become pregnant within a few months. He thinks that his smaller classes of 4-5 after-work and after-school students and a programmed curriculum will make his life a lot easier.

If you have something to offer to students and have a burning desire to teach in China, wait until you have the necessary credentials and experience. Even in American colleges and universities, the schools require some sort of experience, usually in the form of teaching and graduate assistantships.

Do yourself a favor and do your prospective students a favor: acquire the proper credentials and experience.

[Neon5]

This thread is in regards to the eligibility criteria of the FEC and was a quick clarification. It is in no respect a discussion on my eligibility to teach, or to insinuate something from your own personal prejudice.

[Bisis]

Any credible school is going to require FEC when you begin work. Chances are you don't want to work for a school that will hire you otherwise. Not only can they get in trouble but you give up your rights as a employee in China (in other words they don't have to honor their contract).

I suggest to wait until you get your actual diploma. Many schools hire year around. It's a bummer to have to wait, but you're not going to "miss out".

Only the 4 year degree qualifies you for the FEC, the 2 year will not do it. As for 2 years post grad experience...this is not required by many schools. Some schools have great training and will hire teachers with no actual classroom experience.

Hope that helps.

[wesharris]

Try Korea or Taiwan first. Possibly Japan or Vietnam. Mongolia if you're REALLY desperate.

[Miles Smiles]

Try WEB International and roll them dice.

[Halapo]

The FEC isn't need to start work per-say, but you/they should be in process of getting it form the moment you get to the school. You cant really get the FEC without being in China. ( in the past I have got mine as early as September and as late as November, yet in all cases I was in China at the end of August, with a Z-Visa)

To get the FEC you must have:
2 years experience
4 year degree ( they are sticklers on the wording, my college business diploma always slows things down, but I also have my transcript now, which shows my 4 year program ).

It is also hidden in there somewhere that you must be at least 25 years of age to get a FEC or maybe the Resident permit. Typically people younger than 25 would be on tourists or students visas.

As of the last 2 years, the FEC (given by the Education Department for whichever province you are applying for ) has become the hardest step. The Visas and Permits are easy, the people who issues those assume that if you have an FEC, somebody already did their homework on you, or that you have a friend with enough clout to get it done.

The China side rule:
You can probably find somebody who will ignore these facts, and will hire you. They will either have the connections to fudge the rules, or they will lie to you and give you a fake, to which you will not have any clue until you are in to deep to get out.

Honestly, I don't think your odds are that good. Your chances will be better if you wait for Chinese New year and apply with all the proper paperwork. Your best chance would be to also teach ESL at a community center or something while you wait.

Also, somebody pointed out, the further west you get from Shanghai and Beijing, the less picky they will be. You would probably still end up in a modern city ( the city could even only be 2 years old itself) , but the English presence there could just be you.

I didn't make a big deal enough deal about my prior ESL teaching when I first got to China, my school asked to to rewrite my resume to expand on it, yet the degree vs diploma thing they didn't even notice.

[Neon5]

Thanks Halapo, I have noticed the 4 year degree rule - don't tell me that this doesn't allow for a 3 year degree? In the UK, most of the English BA are three year, and the graduates are capable of teaching shortly after that. They could study a masters to make four years but this doesn't exactly lead to teaching english in a foreign country; they'd be overqualified by miles.

Bachelors should be reasonable surely?

Also, are there any further (minor or forgotten) requirements that the FEC require? Like you say, if one could get the FEC from the employer, it would be helpful to understand how they may have done so. Or if they say they'll get the FEC, how they will go about it.