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gusto102
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 44
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 Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject: Which countries pay well & are family friendly? |
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Just wondering out of all of the countries in the world with schools hiring ESL teachers, which pay the bests AND are family friendly?
I have a BA in political science, TEFL certification, 4-years teaching experience in Thailand, and about 1-year of experience teaching ESL, substitute teaching and working as a "paraeducator" altogether in the US. I am currently working on a teachers license in the US (Kansas) and a Masters in teaching with my content area as English.
My plan is to finished my license and Masters and then return to Thailand with my Thai wife and my son who is currently 3-years old. However, money is tight here and my work towards my two goals is slow going.
I just wanted to get an idea of what teaching opportunities are out there for someone with my experience and qualifications?
I know that in Asia Korea and Japan rank high in regards to pay unless one is able to get a job at an international school where the hiring requirements are usually a masters and teachers license from home country.
Are these two countries, particularly Korea, good places to bring one's family? I knew a teacher who left Thailand with his Thai wife and was able to find a descent paying position.
I know that some countries in the middle east advertise that they will pay for you and your family's flight and set you up with accomodation. However, most of these schools have hiring requirements similar to international standards.
Depending on pay and how family friendly a place is I would consider all options. But I lean strongly towards places in Asia, particularly Korea. Any suggestions??? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Which countries pay well & are family friendly? |
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| gusto102 wrote: |
I have a BA in political science, TEFL certification, 4-years teaching experience in Thailand, and about 1-year of experience teaching ESL, substitute teaching and working as a "paraeducator" altogether in the US. I am currently working on a teachers license in the US (Kansas) and a Masters in teaching with my content area as English.
My plan is to finished my license and Masters and then return to Thailand with my Thai wife and my son who is currently 3-years old. |
Good background info to know.
| Quote: |
| I know that in Asia Korea and Japan rank high in regards to pay unless one is able to get a job at an international school where the hiring requirements are usually a masters and teachers license from home country. |
I don't understand what you mean. International schools pay more than most other opportunities, so why would you write "unless"?
Moreover, Japan ranks mediocre to low, not high, in regards to pay for newcomers. I wouldn't expect to make more than 270,000 yen on an incoming job, and odds are that you will be offered less (220,000-250,000, before deductions). And, yes, when I say a newcomer, I mean even someone with your background!
In most cases, to get into an international school, you need the license from home, plus 2 years of teaching back home. Don't forget that.
| Quote: |
| Are these two countries, particularly Korea, good places to bring one's family? I knew a teacher who left Thailand with his Thai wife and was able to find a descent paying position. |
You mean "decent"?
What are you hoping for in terms of a happy family situation? A 3-year-old can stay at home with Mom, but your salary is going to be very tight for the three of you to live on. Does your wife plan to work? If so, you're going to have to pay for daycare facilities. No babysitters here. Is your wife eligible for work of any kind?
I'm going to assume your wife is Thai and that none of you speaks/reads Japanese. Usually, a stay-at-home foreign wife ends up becoming more fluent in Japanese and knowing the neighborhood and daily affairs better than the working husband, but it's a struggle. Are all 3 of you ready for that?
How long do you plan to stay? After a certain age, you are required to put your child in schooling. Only rarely do people homeschool here.
| Quote: |
| I know that some countries in the middle east advertise that they will pay for you and your family's flight and set you up with accomodation. |
Don't expect anyone in Japan to pay for your flight. As for housing, most will probably have secondhand apartments with used furnishings from previous teachers, and they are often chosen only for single occupancy. (Employers don't pay your rent, although they may/should pay for the setup security deposits on that used housing. If you don't go that route, expect to fork over a bundle on key money yourselves just to move into a totally empty apartment of your own. We're talking 2-5 times a month's rent equivalent, and no furniture, curtains, appliances, or light fixtures.) I knew a Thai woman and American husband who were satisfied living in such cramped quarters, but they didn't have a kid. Know what you are facing. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Thailand might be the easiest since your wife is from there. Try PMing tttompatz. If you can get work in an intl school that would be good. Other people do exams or teach private lessons and make extra cash that way.
ZJust about any country is child friendly. There are kids in every country of the world  Asia seems child friendly. We'll be havin g a baby in Korea and neither of us are Korean. Though I still think Thailand might be your best bet, due to visa issues. Here, my visa is dependent on my university and my husband's visa is dependent on mine.
I teach at a university and it's easier to get a job at a Korean one than a Japanese one, where you're often required to speak some Japanese. There are uni jobs all over the world and they usually advertise on chronicle, higheredjobs, and tesol.org You'll need an MA for the good jobs though. At ours, we get five months paid vacation.
There's a separate board for the Korean job topics, just keep in mind that we're friendlier here on this board
Sine you have US teaching experience, you should still look into intl schools. competition is tough, but some of the less popular countries offer fantastic benefits. And cost of living there is usually lower.
Decent money depends on you, the city, budgeting, a lot of stuff. I can support myself and my husband on my salary and we can still travel and save.
housing is an issue. we don't get any. I was also looking at unis in Japan and they only provide single rooms, like Glenski says. Housing is expensive here in Korea, but cheaper than Japan! OUr key money was about 5K usd, rent is 500. BUt we get our key money back. I've been told that in Japan, you don't. |
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Insubordination
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 394
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that most (decently family packaged) International Schools required two years of post-qualification experience. Apparently, many years of language teaching are disregarded by most employers. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| Insubordination wrote: |
| Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that most (decently family packaged) International Schools required two years of post-qualification experience. Apparently, many years of language teaching are disregarded by most employers. |
You're right. But there are plenty of schools out there in countries most people who have never heard of that will snap up new teachers. Like I said, less popular country, means that the admin has to be less choosy. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| I was also looking at unis in Japan and they only provide single rooms, like Glenski says. |
I didn't say anything about university housing. When I wrote about housing, I meant eikaiwas or ALT dispatch. Universities typically do not offer any housing at all.
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| Housing is expensive here in Korea, but cheaper than Japan! |
I thought housing was free in Korea for FT jobs. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| I was also looking at unis in Japan and they only provide single rooms, like Glenski says. |
I didn't say anything about university housing. When I wrote about housing, I meant eikaiwas or ALT dispatch. Universities typically do not offer any housing at all.
| Quote: |
| Housing is expensive here in Korea, but cheaper than Japan! |
I thought housing was free in Korea for FT jobs. |
NOt the good ones that have high salaries  at least here I have seen a couple in Korea that do. Same in Japan. Some will, but few and far between. |
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gusto102
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Glenski: What I meant is that it is my understanding, and it's been a while since I've researched it, that out of all of Asia the two countries that paid well are Korea and Japan, unless you are able to get a job at an international school in which case you will make more regardless of where you are.
I used to hear that Japan and Taiwan paid well but this may have changed since I last checked. Thanks for the insight. I am leaning more towards Korea but would never think of embarking on a career in a new country, especially with a three year old, unless I know what I am facing and have such a good job offer that I would be a fool to pass up.
I will post further questions regarding Korea in the Korea forum but I thought I'd check here as I am interested to know if there are other countries out there that are "family friendly". And what I mean by "family friendly" is that the school offers a competitive salary, education for the kids, airfare, health insurance and housing for the hiree as well as family. This may sound like a lot to ask for but I have seen these benefits offered by schools in the middle east and even international schools in Thailand.
My plan is to continue working on my masters and teachers license in the US and eventually go back to Thailand to work at an international school, but thought I'd check out other options. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:14 am Post subject: |
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Don't forget cost of living. tttompatz has brought this up a couple times. Sure, you may get paid more in Japan, but cost of living is higher. Thailand, you get paid ok, but cost of living is lower. So you might end up saving more in Thailand.
Glenski: What I meant is that it is my understanding, and it's been a while since I've researched it, that out of all of Asia the two countries that paid well are Korea and Japan, unless you are able to get a job at an international school in which case you will make more regardless of where you are.
The Middle East might be the best. I hear that families with kids there have a good life. Or like you said, intl schools. Depends on what age you want to teach. I'd rather teach at university level than intl schools.
Be aware with intl schools there are different tiers. For example, I was hired as a local hire for a Peruvian intl school even though I was living in Korea. they hired me as a local hire since I was married to a Peruvian. LOTS less benefits and pay! |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| gusto102 wrote: |
| Glenski: What I meant is that it is my understanding, and it's been a while since I've researched it, that out of all of Asia the two countries that paid well are Korea and Japan, unless you are able to get a job at an international school in which case you will make more regardless of where you are. |
Thanks for clarifying.
| Quote: |
| I used to hear that Japan and Taiwan paid well but this may have changed since I last checked. |
Salaries in Japan have gone down. What used to be a standard 250,000 yen/month for practically every starting job is closer to 230K now. There are even places that offer 180,000 for 30-40 classroom hours per week!
And, more places are trying to dodge the obligation to co-pay into national health insurance.
| Quote: |
And what I mean by "family friendly" is that the school offers a competitive salary, education for the kids, airfare, health insurance and housing for the hiree as well as family. |
Salaries here are not "competitive" unless you are comparing to a low-paying other country, IMO.
Airfare is rarely if ever offered for the teacher, let alone for dependents!
I've already mentioned health insurance. Housing is often/usually provided as secondhand apartments in low-tax districts, often for single individuals not families, and with used furnishings that would be reminiscent of college days and rummage sales. Keep that in mind for your 3-year-old.
Education? If you are a single parent, I would strongly advise against coming to Japan. No babysitting here, and daycare costs are high. Plus daycare staff will not speak English, and all the documents you have to sign are in Japanese. Plus the waiting line for many daycares is a year long. Come as an eikaiwa teacher, and you have no chance to find a place to take care of a child when you are working (noon to 9pm).
| Quote: |
| This may sound like a lot to ask for but I have seen these benefits offered by schools in the middle east and even international schools in Thailand. |
Thai salaries are not competitive, either. I don't know how you figure that. Cost of living is pretty low AFAIK. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| OP wrote: |
| This may sound like a lot to ask for but I have seen these benefits offered by schools in the middle east and even international schools in Thailand. |
Thai salaries are not competitive, either. I don't know how you figure that. Cost of living is pretty low AFAIK. |
That is 1/2 correct. Entry level and language academies salaries are NOT competitive with anything outside of the 3rd world (30-40k thb per month with NO benefits) but decent schools ARE competitive for those who are qualified.
I am currently earning about 200,000 jpy (75k thb) + 14 weeks paid vacation, medical (bupa), tuition for our daughter and some other minor perks (no airfare) for 18 classes (50 minutes) per week + some minor admin duties and our family lives comfortably on about 60,000 jpy (20-25k thb) per month (rent, utilities, food, broadband internet, etc).
| OP wrote: |
| And what I mean by "family friendly" is that the school offers a competitive salary, education for the kids, airfare, health insurance and housing for the hiree as well as family. |
NOWHERE that the OP wants or is willing to work will offer what he is asking for... (but for home country licensed teachers Taiwan public schools come close)...
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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ttompatz,
You're in Thailand, right? Those figures sound like you're able to manage quite nicely there, but you also have a nice perk with 14 weeks paid vacation. Do any work on the side during that time?
There is no way someone can live with a family on 200,000 yen/month in Japan or survive on 60,000 for rent/food/utilities. The cost of living is obviously much lower in Thailand. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
ttompatz,
You're in Thailand, right? Those figures sound like you're able to manage quite nicely there, but you also have a nice perk with 14 weeks paid vacation. Do any work on the side during that time?
There is no way someone can live with a family on 200,000 yen/month in Japan or survive on 60,000 for rent/food/utilities. The cost of living is obviously much lower in Thailand. |
I am working in Thailand as a teacher and I work in Korea during those 14 weeks off as a consultant for 2 different provincial offices of education. I hold valid work visas in both countries.
The salary indicated was just from the Thailand teaching position and in terms of real savings (about US$1600/mo) I do better here than I was doing as a teacher in Korea
It goes back to what I have continually said:
For those looking for a gap year or two after college, it is a job abroad.
Enjoy your time and go home.
For those who wish to make a career out of it, it is like any other teaching career. Get qualified, pick a country, settle in and move up. There ARE decent opportunities abroad for those with qualifications and experience.
Teaching is NOT a job where you will get rich. It is firmly planted in the middle class. Savings for an average family are what they would be anywhere else.
If you want to realistically compare salaries between countries, look at the net savings and standard of living. If you can maintain a similar standard of living between the countries and have a similar savings potential then the jobs are similar even though the wages may be largely different.
If you want the big bucks, stay at home and get into business or banking (or in the US, medicine).
As to being family friendly (suitable for raising a family, having kids, etc) then most countries are family friendly (they ALL have kids and families).
Can you raise a family on an entry level wage = it'll be tough but do-able (the same as at home and a new teacher).
Can you comfortably raise a family after you get established = YES.
The last question, can an American (they pay far more than any other developed country for their tertiary education) justify the high cost of his education (BA, MA, cert) as a teacher abroad = unlikely.
In fact, starting out, they would likely be unable to repay any student loans that are outstanding until they become established or unless they are a 2 income family.
In the short term it is going to hurt and there will be no "profit" in the move for a couple of years. The first year's savings will go to repaying the cost of the move and settlement and the 2nd year will be spent on acquiring creature comforts.
The long term prospects however are much better. Certainly in most of Asia, ESL and teaching in English are growth industries and will continue to be so for the next 50 years (China alone (SAFEA numbers) expects to recruit and import 1/2 a million new English speaking teachers over the next decade alone.
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spanglish
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 742
Location: working on that
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz - much higher cost of living in Bogota, Colombia. Interesting info. |
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sunshine4all
Joined: 25 Jun 2011
Posts: 1
Location: Gaziantep Turkey
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Turkey is a good place to bring one's family and work. My experiences have been good at Zirve University as compared to others but, I will acknowledge that it is a new university, only two years old, and it takes time to get things settled. Having said the previous, it does not mean that some problems may not arise ,however overall my experience has been quite positive and I am happy to be here where I feel I can be part of the creation of this institution.  |
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