Job Discussion Forums

ScottishGringo · Joined: 08 Apr 2011 Posts: 45

Hi,

As of Sunday evening I should hold a 20hr TEFL certificate (weekend intensive course) and am weighing up my options on which country would be both best suited to me and offer the best lifestyle.

I'm a native English speaker and hold a degree also. I have no teaching experience.

What can a newbie, with my qualifications & experience (or lack of them maybe) expect in terms of starting pay and benefits?

So a rough average monthly salary, will I likely get a free apartment, would airfare be reimbursed etc? What sort of monthly living costs would I face?

Twisted Evil

deadlift · Joined: 08 Jun 2010 Posts: 267

Airfares and housing: definitely not. Benefits: nil.

For someone with your CV, a monthly salary doesn't exist, because you'll most likely be working part time at a couple of schools to make up a full schedule.

These will be the lower end schools, or maybe the mid range ones if you get to know the right person or have some lucky timing in your application.

In Saigon you're probably looking at $15-16 per hour. $17-18 is the starting rate of some of the bigger schools, but they'll be looking for a CELTA-esque qualification (which they teach- so they have no shortage of prospects).

mark_in_saigon · Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 837

You should give more info. You are assuming you will get hired remotely? It appears you have never been to VN, right? Ever been to Asia at all? You should detail yourself some more. Age, appearance, dialect. When someone meets you or reads your resume, do they assume you are Scottish? These people have a profile, and if you do not fit it, you are discounted. What is your degree in? Without knowing all of that, I would still give my bottom line advice which is easy to find on various threads. This place is fine if you:

1 - have sources of income from the west

2 - can live away from the tourist areas (where most of the higher paying jobs are)

3 - understand the major problems with life here (which are well documented on this site), and have a compelling reason for being here which outweighs those problems

In my opinion, income production should not be that reason. If you are not in great demand by the ESL industry for whatever reason, you will be scrambling around to survive, and life will likely not be better than some other destination (or back home). If you are well rewarded by ESL, then you could probably be well rewarded in less difficult environments.

This can be a wonderful life, but rarely is ESL the main reason (in VN that is).

Your mileage may vary.

LettersAthruZ · Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Posts: 466 Location: North Viet Nam

Like Mark said - more info, please. Also: Regarding the housing included and airfare reimbursement, WHAT REGION(s) of Viet Nam are you looking at. I wouldn't make a blanket "Definitely YES" or "Definitely NO" answer. Down South (esp. from what I have been told in Ho CHi Minh City), there is an over-saturation of ESL teachers because of the Worldwide Economic Depression in the Tay nations, so free housing, airfare reimbursement.....I highly doubt it.

I DO know of people in Da Nang and Hai Phong who do get free housing (and some of them get 50% reimbursement of a round-trip ticket paid after a one-year contract is completed) - but then again: Nobody's really "discovered" Da Nang yet and Hai Phong is....well....uhhh.....it's not a place that I'd want to live in (the average Tay English instructor there lasts about six to ten weeks and literally almost nobody "re-ups" [renews their contracts] after six months). But, I mean, THOSE are the kind of places where you would have a shot at free housing and airfare reimbursement.

Most importantly, what are YOU looking for out of an ESL position? You stated - "....am weighing up my options on which country would be both best suited to me and offer the best lifestyle. " What is your lifestyle and what are your goals in doing this?? Money? Working conditions? I mean, the society and lifestyle of the nations around Asia are radically different - (I mean - there are oceans of differences between Viet Nam and, say, South Korea.....in terms of teaching positions and also [most importantly] culturally).

Good luck!

ScottishGringo · Joined: 08 Apr 2011 Posts: 45

How did you come to the conclusion I'd never been to Vietnam. I've been twice and travelled the length of the country. Have travelled all over SE Asia and been to the region several times.

I was hoping it would be possible to get hired from home, have seen this mentioned in job adverts that Skype interviews were possible. I'm 27 later this year, I'm Scottish but can tone down my accent without issue when travelling everyone always comments how I don't sound Scottish or thinks I'm English (pfft!). My degree is in Events Management, also an HND in Marketing.

I wouldn't have a source of income from the West, if I had income coming from home I wouldn't be choosing to work I'd just travel, I probably wouldn't want to live in the sticks I like the city and nightlife too much, I would have no real reason to be in Vietnam other than to make some cash and have some fun thought I might even be able to save as the money seems OK from job adverts I've looked at.

As for what I'm looking for out of ESL, to live and make money in a foreign country, have a fairly easy lifestyle, have a bit of fun and enjoy myself and maybe if lucky save some cash up to go travelling with after my contract ends, the jobs I've seen advertised all pay similar or more than I make here at home and I know Vietnam is cheaper than Scotland.

mark_in_saigon · Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 837

LettersAthruZ · Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Posts: 466 Location: North Viet Nam

Well, judging by your wants and your situation fiscally.....honestly?? South Korea is definitely a better bet for yourself!

Yeah, it's veeeerrrry formal....veeerrry rigid.....but it's also much safer than Viet Nam!!

Now, by "much safer", I mean that in South Korea, CONTRACTS TEND TO BE HONOURED (as opposed to here, where, generally, you can wipe your bum with the meaning of what's on that piece of paper). Housing IS generally assisted and/or provided and airfare is frequently reimbursed!

Plus, in terms of nightlife, unless you end up in Ho Chi Minh City, you just won't find it. Full stop! And, again, in Ho Chi Minh City, a green newbie with your qualifications....there already is a glut of under-experienced ESL teachers there from Ireland and The U.K. (and, increasingly, from The States) as the world economy goes down the toilet.

The North (Ha Noi / Hai Phong)?? There ISN'T ANY nightlife there......they are EXTREMELY conservative and the Canh Sat (Police) force most places to close by midnight (Ha Noi) or 11PM (Hai Phong)....sooooo, yeah - ya might have a shot at gaining employ as an English teacher up here, but it ain't what you're looking for in terms of nightlife!! If you want nightlife in Ha Noi or Hai Phong....you may as well go looking for nightlife in Guantanimo.....

Trust me on this one - head to South Korea....MUCH less of a gamble!!!

(....and MUCH cheaper than Japan)!

Slanted & Enchanted · Joined: 02 Oct 2010 Posts: 18

LettersAthruZ · Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Posts: 466 Location: North Viet Nam

bentanddisfunctional · Joined: 19 Oct 2010 Posts: 85

touche 'Slanted & Enchanted'

OP- do yourself a favour and go to Sth Korea or Taiwan.

They'll take anyone reasonably sober and with a heartbeat...

Good luck

Very Happy

Slanted & Enchanted · Joined: 02 Oct 2010 Posts: 18

LettersAthruZ · Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Posts: 466 Location: North Viet Nam

jerseyblue · Joined: 24 Jun 2011 Posts: 16

I agree with many on here that you sound like you'd be a better fit for South Korea. I was there for 2 years. You can take the hagwon route which pays well (even for very little experience or quals.) or the more secure Public School route (SMOE, EPIK, GEPIK). There are some hagwon chains that are more established and less likely to rip you off and more likely to honor their contracts.

You can easily save $1000 USD, get round trip airfare paid upfront (or paid after) and live a pretty easy and comfortable life. Also, depending on what country you are from, you can collect a pension there, which after 1 or 2 years can grow to be significant. It's not uncommon for teachers to leave Kores with $10,000+ saved.

In comparison, Vietnam seems more of an adventurous and unpredictable place. I've spent a little over a month there on 4 different vacations, and I know it's a place I love and want to try to live at, but yeah, I already cut my teeth teaching in New York and then Seoul. Also, I'm not expecting to make big money. I'd rather live in an exciting place and improve my teaching practice through a variety of experiences instead of just make money.

Slanted & Enchanted · Joined: 02 Oct 2010 Posts: 18

MOD EDIT

I spent 4 years in that place, and can safely say that it's an absolute gold mine (or shall we say, WAS an absolute goldmine unless you're a 20-something blonde female from the U.S) for the newbie/unqualified/post student but still acting like you're a student. I saved enough in 4 years to be quite well off; and that was an entry level job. Some people are earning mega bucks with hardly any qualifications at all, all they're armed with is a F-visa (married to a local *shudder*) which allows them to freelance a bit.

Vietnam is totally different. It's a developing nation and things must be put into perspective. My local beer hoi operator maybe makes 10 bucks a day for working 12-10pm and I saw her arguing with who should take out her rubbish The woman who took the rubbish had to pay for the honor of taking the rubbish, later selling the rubbish for some kind of profit. This is the kind of country in which we are working in.

Bearing that in mind, do you seriously think that you're entitled to a high wage just because you're white and possibly have a degree in basket weaving? Think again. Once you get a feel for the local economy, you'll realize you're on very very high money here, even though you might think as such.

In real terms though, you're not. If you intend to send money home, that money is probably quite paltry but it's probably a huge amount to the local population.

Vietnam though is an interesting, vibrant and colourful place to be, I wouldn't go back to Korea for all the money in the world, it's just that kind of place. Being over 30 helps, I no longer long for the bright lights and late night benders getting home at 6am; neither do I constantly plan my next trip abroad as I actually like living here.

To sum up, I wouldn't recommend Vietnam as some kind of place to cobble up some coin to go traveling, there are other options but it is a great place to live, I'm loving it so far.

jerseyblue · Joined: 24 Jun 2011 Posts: 16

That was well said, especially the part about "planning my next trip abroad"... I found that on vacations, even the slightest, smallest vacation possible, I'd be itching to leave Korea.

I'm moving to Vietnam because after spending 4 vacations there, I want to live there. I love traveling, but living in a place where you are always looking to get out of isn't a place you're really in love with, now is it?