Job Discussion Forums

subjectac · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 2

My friend and I, Americans, want to teach in Spain or Portugal. I have found that it would be best to enter either the CELTA or go through a TEFL course but we really don't have the time or money. I was curious if an Online TEFL course would be of some use in this case or if we would be just as likelly to get a job without one as we look when we arive. Also I was curious if anyone has experience in the two countries and if finding a job in the big cities is of the same difficulty between the two. Thank You Smile

Alex Shulgin · Joined: 20 Jul 2003 Posts: 553

If you don't have the time or money to learn how to teach then why do you expect people to waste their time and money on 'lessons' with you?

To answer your question: most online courses are almost worthless. So are most of the 5 day courses. One such example is the teachandtravel.con course which takes three evenings and two full days. You get extra credit after the course for reading books which are madatory pre-course reading for a CELTA.

subjectac · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 2

I appreciate the response MR. Shulgin, its just that I have heard of many if not most the students I have heard of found jobs with no training at all teaching English in Spain. If this is not something your familiar with you need not respond to this. Otherwise if you have any experience or knowledge in this area, good or bad, it would be appreciated.

ChicagoCubMike · Joined: 28 Mar 2004 Posts: 30 Location: Chicago, IL

I recently completed the i-to-i Online TEFL course and found it a lot more rigorous than I had expected. Certainly, you'll want to be studying on your own as well (I spent a lot of time in the ESL section of the library during the month it took me to do the course) in order to get the most out of an online course. You may also want to see whether you can observe an ESL course or two at a local language school or community college to see in action the things you'll be learning online (the i-to-i course includes a unit wherein you view a class on a CD-ROM).

If you're considering Portugal, Wall Street Institutes are located up and down the country, with several in the Lisbon area. You see ads for them all the time in Portugal, so they may be a good place to apply.

As for Alex's comments, it's always been my experience that fair and balanced are usually most obvious in their absence; take that for what it's worth. It's what you do with your training that counts.

Mouse · Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 208

That's true that what you make of your training is what's important, but arguably there needs to be some training in the first place. I think Alex Shulgin made a fair comment, if a little brutally. Of more concern to the OP, I would argue, is whether or not they can work legally in Spain, Portugal, or indeed any European country. If they cannot, then the question of whether to invest in a CELTA in order to secure a better job is a moot point -- schools willing to hire illegally are not generally the better ones.

Alex Shulgin · Joined: 20 Jul 2003 Posts: 553

ChicagoCubMike · Joined: 28 Mar 2004 Posts: 30 Location: Chicago, IL

I really don't know what makes you the judge of someone's qualifications. Last time I checked it was the school where you apply to teach that does that. There are plenty of teachers out there who are well qualified on paper but who aren't very good in the classroom. Perhaps, Alex, you've seen folks with Internet certs get jobs that you wanted to get yourself? I know my Internet cert. beats the I-don't-care-anymore teaching skills of a longtime instructor at my school.

With your hounding, I'm-right-you're-wrong-and-I'm-better-anyway attitude, I really wonder how good (or bad) an experience it must be to be one of your students? Because at least from your posts, you really seem like someone who opens his mouth first, and then, if at all, thinks about the meaning--and effect on others--of his words afterward.

Given that choice, I think I'd take the Portuguese class next door.

Alex Shulgin · Joined: 20 Jul 2003 Posts: 553

ChicagoCubMike · Joined: 28 Mar 2004 Posts: 30 Location: Chicago, IL

Honestly, Alex. Before you take such a holier-than-thou attitude, I'd run my posts through a grammar-checker first.

Mouse · Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 208

Do I hear "handbags at fifty paces"? Laughing

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

The world of EFL is full of people making judgements.

And I too often make judgements. If some monoglot with no training or experience wants to be hired at my place, I make a judgement too. The answer is NO !

And I do not say "No, thanks !"

Some of us old-timers do not take too kindly to newcomers with zero experience telling us the way it should be in a perfect world.

Alex Shulgin · Joined: 20 Jul 2003 Posts: 553

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Seems to me this exchange is like many on this website. Someone posts a question, gets an answer he doesn't like, and then goes postal.

Newbie :I am a sixteen-year-old vegetarian. Can I go and work in Carnivoria ?

Oldie :No, you are too young and it is only for carnivores.

Newbie :You are nasty and horrid and you hate me and I am going to tell my Mummy !

Oldie : Ya boo to you too.

And so on ad infinitum

anthyp · Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 1320 Location: Chicago, IL USA

Don't listen to scot47 or that Shulgin clown. Apparently they go around to all the forums mocking people and generally being disruptive. I think Shulgin is a long - time poster who was banned from posting under his original name. Anyway regarding the OP it will be very difficult, if not impossible, to secure a job in Spain without a TEFL degree. You absolutely should have that before arriving in Spain to begin your job search, whether you get it from an online course or go through one of the four - week intensive courses. From what my friends have told me there, it's not terribly hard finding work in Madrid, but it's not easy to build up a full - time schedule. I don't know about Portugal.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

And the work permit ? Pray tell how will they get that ?

Maybe you are suggesting that they go and work as "wetbacks" ?

I attempt to inject a dose of reality into a world that is full of half truths, unrealistic expecattions and hype sold by people who are making money.