Job Discussion Forums

[gloomyGumi]

What do you think are the pluses and minuses for the final decision to choose one of these 2 countries to work in for 3 or 4 years as a married individual with 1 child?

[cartago]

I don't know anything about working conditions in Malaysia but I know it's a more diverse society if that helps anything.

[asalak]

I worked in both places (Istanbul and KL).

KL is extremely humid all year -Istanbul is boiling in summer and freezing in winter.

Working conditions and pay both absolutely and relative to cost of living are slightly better in Turkey than in KL, in my experience.

Condos are better than gecekondus! (i.e., the housing is better overall in Malaysia -if you get into a condominium, you will have a communal pool, no chance of that in Istanbul).

English is more widely spoken to a higher level in Malaysia than Turkey

Malaysia is a safer and more regulated place to live -traffic, crime, working conditions (i.e., unlikely you'll get away without paying tax, having the right visas, etc) - though that's not to say that Istanbul isn't safer than any western city of a comparable size.

Istanbul's more fun, there's more going on in the streets depending on where you live, but Malaysia is a lot more diverse -indians-Chinese-Malays-colonial relics, etc.

School system in M. is a lot more anglo-friendly than in Turkey, primarily due to colonial ties.

Hope that helps -sorry I can't be more specific.

[gloomyGumi]

that is fantastic and just the kind of impressions/images I was hoping someone would offer. The fact that you've been in both places Ist and KL is very valuable to me: Im from New Jersey/NYC and multiculturalism is a GIVEN---on my little block in Jersey City we have 31 houses: 12 Hispanic families ranging from Colombian to Chilean to Cuban, 3 Armenian families (2 from Istanbul and 1 from Armenia proper), 5 Italian families, 1 Greek family, 2 Palestinian families and about 7 or 8 more of Anglo-Saxon descent. Good to hear Malaysia is a bit more multicultural.

What % of Istanbul would you say is Turkish? And what are the main non-Turkish peoples you notice in Istanbul? Are there East Indians? Are there Arabs? ......... Mexicans? etc....

[scot47]

Who is going to pay for education of the child ?

Turkey is monocultural - even in Istanbul.

[gloomyGumi]

I am planning to pay for the child's education. Are you implying the cost of it will be prohibitive? What do you mean "who"? Do you think people with children go around looking for donations for their education? Sorry, not sure what you are implying by that question.

As for mono-cultural, glad to get that info. Sounds a bit boring there in that regard. I heard there is atleast an Armenian section somewhere near Taksim. Sounds like that is about it then? If so, that's pretty dismal!

[billy orr]

If you think Turkey is monocultural I think you are missing a great deal. Listening to Turkish people's conversations in daily life you will hear very many references to friends, neighbours and family members who are Circassians, Laz, Arabs, Kurds (several different types), Albanians, Macedonians, migrants from Bulgaria or Romania or Hungary or Poland or western Thrace, Tatars, Azeri, Kazak, Y�r�k and Suriyani. I have probably left out several from this list.

[coffeespoonman]

That's true, but still I agree with Scot for the most part. Despite all the ethnic backgrounds that blend together in Istanbul, there's very little visible multiculturalism. Of all the ethnic groups Billy mentions, the only one I'd say you're likely to find represented in a visible way is Kurdish, and even then, you probably won't notice any difference from the Turks unless you become friends with some.

I lived in the Armenian section (Ferikoy)for a year. Then, I lived in the area where all the refugees from Iraq and Africa live (Kurtulus) for a year. Even in those places, I wouldn't say I felt any real cultural differences from the rest of Istanbul.

[gloomyGumi]

[billy orr]

Crikey, you chaps are hard to please. First you want multiculturalism, and then when I give it to you it's the wrong sort. I can assure you that the Turkish people I know perceive a great many differences between the behaviour, attitudes, lifestyle and attire of all these different people. Perhaps your concept of multiculturalism should be enlarged to include sorts that your are not familiar with from your home countries.

[Dedicated]

gloomyGumi,

There are many permanent residents in Istanbul, who live cheek by jowl, from a range of ethnic/religious backgrounds. There are Kurds, Orthodox Christians, Armenians, Catholic Levantines, and Sephardic Jews.

Kumkapi is the area for Armenians; Balat is mainly Jewish with 20 synagogues; Fener has a strong Greek community;Nisantasi/Beyoglu has many Levantine Catholics; Arnavutkoy is named after Albanians; Polonezkoy is Polish; Yenibosna is for New Bosnia. There are many restaurants and coffee shops that serve these ethnic foods.

However, just about everyone speaks Turkish and consider themselves Turkish citizens now.

[gloomyGumi]

Dedicated: (O! Dedicated!)

This was indeed a fabulous post by you. It is heart-warming for me. Warming of the heart. No doubt. Awesome. Greeks, Sephardic Jews, Levantines--these are most of my friends in New York and New Jersey. Its great to know there are sections with these peoples. The fact they all speak Turkish/consider themselves Turkish is no different than all my above-mentioned pals considering themselves American/speaking English. This is great news. I'm not expecting the incredible mix I had in Jersey, but damn damn DAMN!!!! its already sounding 1000 times better/less homogeneous than where I am now........TAKE A GUESS BUT DONT MENTION IT HERE, OR THE THREAD MAY NOT SURVIVE.

[penguin100]

gloomy, did you decide between Turkey and Malaysia yet?

I'm Malaysian working in Izmir. So, I can't give a point of view of a foreigner living in Malaysia (by which I'm sure you also mean KL). However, many of my expat friends have said that KL is increasingly become expensive to live in. Foreign ESL teacher pay may be higher in Malaysia, but I feel a lot of "middle-class" goods and services are overpriced.

Public transportation is horrible, so unless you plan to live very close to your work place, you must buy a car.

I've not lived/worked in Istanbul before, but if you're comparing living in Izmir and KL, I think Izmir fairs slightly better.

I think food/culture really depends on what you're looking for. I agree that Malaysia is more visibly multicultural. And food is awesome and can be very cheap.

Malaysia neighbours many Southeast Asian countries, and has one of the best budget airline carriers, AirAsia, so it's easy and cheap to get away for the weekend to Thailand, Hong Kong etc. Plus, we have Borneo which is super awesome.

Here's a link for teaching positions for a project by the Malaysian government (not hiring Malaysians! sheesh!). It's closed now but gives a pro-Malaysia view about living/working there.
http://www.smrhrgroup.com/career10.htm

Those wages are very good for Malaysian standards.

I don't really know which is better. I guess it really depends on what you're looking for. For now, I'm really happy to be here in Izmir!

[gloomyGumi]

i decided on Turkey. thanks to all who contributed here.

[Mike_B]

GloomyGumi,
I didn't see your school comment addressed further. Just a heads up -- private schools here are very expensive. Relative to the average Turk's income, I would say that a good private school with English as the medium of instruction is more expensive in Turkey than most places in the world.

The government Turkish schools will gladly accept your child after you obtain residence permits. I don't know how you feel about that and it could be a difficult transition for your child depending on his/her age.

Good luck with your decision and move!

Mike