Job Discussion Forums

[newtoefl2011]

Hi guys, I replied to an ad recently for EFL teachers in Sichuan province. The agency who posted the ad seem to be very keen, but as I'm a new teacher, I'm just wondering if anyone has heard of them and can tell me whether or not they're legit. The ad was posted on this website.

They're called Sunny's English Club, based in Chengdu. They haven't asked for any money which is a good sign, but they've asked to see copies of my degree and information page of my passport as well as my CV and a recent photo.

As I'm kinda new to this, my partner and I don't know if this is standard procedure for EFL positions in China or not, and we're a bit dubious about sending private information like a photo of the passport information page before we know they're on the level.

Can anyone give me some advice?

[Miles Smiles]

Standard request. If you feel uncomfortable showing your passport number, black it out with electrician's tape before you scan (or with a piece of paper). If you are accepted, you'll have to provide a new scan of your passport.

The info requested helps to qualify you to be worth considering. (No passport= no travel; no degree= no education, etc.).

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

It's usual, and unfortunate.

The potential for identity fraud is extreme.

I usually ask them for detailed information about their school before I randomly hand over my own information. It's like applying for a job at home: Know the place before you actually want the job or not.

They could even do all the application stuff behind your back without your consent and TRICK you into working for whomever they choose.

Careful.

[7969]

The threat of identity theft exists, but it is not "extreme." That's fear-mongering. You're ten times more likely to be a victim of identity theft or fraud in your own country simply by virtue of the huge amount of personal info available there. banking records, credit card info, driver's license or health card numbers, employment history, home address, mail theft from your home mailbox, personal papers disposed of in the trash (dumpster diving), social insurance/social security number . . . none of this is easily available to foreign employers or fraudsters.

It's normal and healthy to be a bit skeptical first time working in a foreign country, but if you want to work abroad (anywhere) a copy of your passport and certificates are the first things a potential employer will ask to see. Take a few simple precautions like the one miles smiles mentioned till you're sure the school is serious about hiring you and you should be fine. But you'll need to give them the complete info eventually.

[GuestBob]

[newtoefl2011]

Thanks for the advice guys, it's really helped. Has anyone actually heardd of Sunny's English Club?

[7969]

There has been a thread or two about Sunny's English club on this forum. As I recall the guy who started the thread didn't enjoy the experience. BUT he was advised to go to China on a tourist visa (bad advice) and did so (bad decision) and that was followed up with a chain of events that compounded things. You should know that agents and agencies often hire you out to more than one school, so if you end up working for one of them you're not in the same place from one day to the next. I worked for an agent in one of my first ESL jobs and I was all over the county from one day to the next. In one way it was good as I had a variety of work, but it was bad as I had to travel all over the place on my motorbike incl. during typhoon season. Agents also typically take 10-20% of whatever the school pays for your services as their cut.

I suggest you email Sunny's and ask if they can send you the documents to help you get the Z visa. If so, that's a plus as at least it gives you some protection if things go bad, and they MIGHT be worth considering. Of course to be able to get a Z visa you usually need a four year BA, experience, be over 22 or 23 yoa, and have some kind of TEFL training. Do you meet the qualifications newtoefl? I find that people who go to agencies most often lack a degree.

On the other hand, if Sunny's can't get you a Z visa then the chances of things going wrong multiply. In that case, tell them "no thanks."

If you do email them and ask about the visa post the reply here. It'll be interesting to see what they say.

[newtoefl2011]

Hi, thanks again for the advice. No, neither of us have a degree. We have been told by lots of EFL teachers we know that a degree isn't always necessary to be awarded a z visa though, so we didn't know how to go about searching for jobs.

[7969]

[newtoefl2011]

I emailed Sunny's last night asking about whether I was still elligible for the z visa without a degree. This is what they replied:

'Degree is something but not very thing. Whether you can get Z visa also depends on your other qualifications. If you ready cannot get a working visa but the school and us think you are good, we can also help you with business visa. 3 month or 6 month. So please send me the documents I required. Thank you.'

[7969]

The main qualification for the Z visa is having a degree and the right passport. The rest (tefl/experience) are easy to get around.

By suggesting the L or F visa Sunny's wants you to work illegally (they won't be getting you a Z visa). Lots of people do it in China (did it once myself) and many are happy and have no problems. But others have lots of problems, and since you have no degree your options are limited in China. If you do end up working for Sunny's my advice is to set your expectations lower and be prepared to pack up and leave at the first sign of trouble (non-payment of salary, asked to work more hours than contracted at a lower rate etc). And if you do go work for them on anything other than a Z visa, there's no need for you to hand your passport over to them for anything. Keep that with you at all times.

Have you read this thread:

Delter Telfort - scam alert, warning. teachers cheated

This is what can happen to you when you show up to work for a company illegally. It can still happen to you even if you're working for a legit company and have a Z visa and residence permit but the chances are a lot higher with companies that aren't authorized to hire foreigners. At least you're doing a bit of legwork beforehand, unlike other people who just walk into a situation blind.

[newtoefl2011]

Thanks for that. I wuldn't ever have considered going to China illegally without a z visa anyway, but the email reply from Sunny's just shows how they do business.

I have been told by many TEFL teachers in China that there are ways of getting a z visa without having a degree (through the schools sway with the local authorities etc) and had hoped to do something like this.

I have to say, that in light of everything, China really doesn't look like a realistic option anymore. It's a shame. I'm finding that my partner and I are hampered finding teaching jobs in most countries we've looked at because of our lack of degree. I know this is the way of the world, and usually it's nothing more than a visa requirement or to prove a level of intelligence, but it's a real stumbling block.

When we chose to do TEFL we were told that we'd be excluded from teaching in some countries (Japan, South Korea, Turkey etc.) without a degree, but we've found it difficult to get work anywhere at all, even in countries which supposedly don't require a degree such as the Czech Republic and Italy. Lesson learned.

[7969]

Why not just buckle down and get a degree? These days there are lots of options to help you do just that and while having the degree doesn't necessarily make the holder any smarter, it opens a lot more doors than not having one. Three or four years of work now will make the next 40 a lot easier.

[newtoefl2011]

[7969]

Anything worthwhile in life isn't easy. Those who really want it will find a way to get it done. Anyway, good luck.