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Does learning the native language make one a better citizen?

 
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:38 pm    Post subject: Does learning the native language make one a better citizen? Reply with quote

Immigrant's refusal to learn English focuses glare on UK policy
by Tahira Yaqoob for The National | Jul 30, 2011
(Source: http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/lifestyle-comment/immigrants-refusal-to-learn-english-focuses-glare-on-uk-policy)

Back in the 1970s there was a popular British sitcom called Mind Your Language. The premise of the show, set in an English-as-a-foreign-language class, was essentially racist, with all the predictable stereotypes you can imagine such a show engenders. It reduced immigrants to comical characters, from the head-waggling Indian and the illiterate Pakistani to the camera-snapping Japanese electronics executive and the unwielding German.

But parents, still adjusting to life in Britain thousands of miles from their homeland and themselves trying to learn English, loved that programme. It was probably the first time since they'd arrived in the UK 15 years earlier that they saw Asian actors playing out recognisable scenarios - albeit on an exaggerated scale. In 1979, Mind Your Language was eventually deemed offensive and scrapped, although versions of the show went on to be hits in India, Pakistan and some African countries.

My parents persisted with their language lessons. For my father, it was imperative for work. For my mother, as a housewife looking after a brood of five, the need was less obvious. She managed to string unfamiliar sentences together, partly from a sense of wanting to participate in the society she now called home and partly so she was not left behind by her children, educated in a British school system.

This week, Rashida Chapti from India went to the High Court in Britain to fight for the right of her husband, Vali, not to learn English. The pair have been married 37 years and although she attained British citizenship six years ago, he has been told he must learn to read, write and speak basic English before being allowed to remain in the UK under new immigration laws. Their lawyer claims the requirement is a breach of their human rights. Mrs Chapti says her husband is too old to learn the language.

If we draw parallels with the situation here in the UAE, few people actually bother to learn Arabic. Partly that is because of the transient nature of the population; perhaps it's sheer laziness as well because English suffices in most situations.

The question is: Does learning the native language make you a better citizen? Can you ever be anything but a guest in the country you live in if you do not speak the language?

In parts of Bradford in the north of England - nicknamed Bradistan - there are second- and third-generation residents, born and bred in the UK, who are still barely able to speak English. It is impossible to see how this is not disempowering. Can you ever make a valid contribution to society, to make friends, to be a part of the national debate, if you cannot articulate your opinions in the language of the land?

The refusal to integrate has created enclaves - ghettos even - where communities operate in isolation, regarded with suspicion by those outside and completely insular to those within.

It is far from the ideal of multiculturalism. These pockets, the creation of successive waves of flawed government policy, are divided by race and religion, with misunderstanding on both sides. What is worrying is the sense of entitlement the UK's multiculturalism policy has bred. The Chaptis want to live in Britain, but don't feel the need to integrate. In the Leicester community where Mrs Chapti lives, she probably does not hear English spoken much, nor feels it would benefit her husband.

It may not be right to punish Mr Chapti for the government's inability to challenge these enclaves' insularity and failure to make their residents feel included, but the case should sound an alarm bell that it is time to bring all sectors of society to the table, in whatever language the discussion takes.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The question is: Does learning the native language make you a better citizen? Can you ever be anything but a guest in the country you live in if you do not speak the language?


1. Absolutely.
2. Absolutely Not. And, in my opinion, even long term guests should make a decent effort.

Consider: European countries (most) require language tests in order to gain citizenship. In what way would it be unfair for Anglophone countries to do the same?

This is an issue that is particularly relevant to me. I've applied for Czech citizenship. Czech is a very difficult language to learn, particularly when one starts the process as an adult. However, I have always felt it was my responsibility - if I am going to carry the passport, of course I must be able to speak the language to a functional level.

Further, long-term residents should (in most cases) also make a very decent stab at the local language. It's simply rude and disrespectful not to do so.

Kudos to all the Russian babushky and Chinese grannies in English classes in Canada. They may not technically have to, but they are doing the right thing.
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The question is: Does learning the native language make you a better citizen? Can you ever be anything but a guest in the country you live in if you do not speak the language?

In parts of Bradford in the north of England - nicknamed Bradistan - there are second- and third-generation residents, born and bred in the UK, who are still barely able to speak English. It is impossible to see how this is not disempowering. Can you ever make a valid contribution to society, to make friends, to be a part of the national debate, if you cannot articulate your opinions in the language of the land?

I agree that not speaking the official language in a country is disempowering and puts you at a real disadvantage (eg. work opportunities, study, emergency situations). However, some countries are what I�d call �immigration� countries and you, or at least the following generation, can expect to eventually assimilate and become part of the community. This is not necessarily true everywhere. I lived in Germany long enough to realise that it wouldn't have mattered how long I was there or how good a grasp of language I had, I'd never have been able to become fully German, regardless of whether I became an official citizen or not. And nor would any following generation be German unless at least one parent was. Getting German citizenship was never my intention; this was just an observation on my part. Sure, becoming a citizen that has a high level of understanding of the language gives you rights to vote and therefore take part in a meaningful way in national debates. What it doesn�t do is ensure you�ll become part of the culture.
Quote:
Mrs Chapti says her husband is too old to learn the language
I can understand why someone who�s reached a certain point in life and who has family support networks might just want to live somewhere and not have to worry about learning the language to do so, though I also admire those who make an effort. It�s much more of an issue when it continues into the following generations, although this is more unusual as children generally have to go to school.

From the little bit I know of Bradford, it�s a poverty stricken, low income area and immigrants have never been welcome. In a hostile environment, people do set up enclaves as a way of surviving but no doubt there are many who'd reject the new culture no matter what. I don�t think the kind of problems that evolve in places like Bradford are simply language issues, and they won�t be easily resolved.
In some places you're always going to be 'the foreigner' especially if you look different.
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Insubordination



Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 394
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going to court is far harder than attempting to learn English.

I see programs and visited places with all those Brits in Spain, who have basically set up their own English-speaking communities, businesses and housing markets and the majority don't seem to give the language a second thought or even produce bilingual marketing for said businesses. I sort of understand why people do it.

Citizenship is another kettle of fish. I think it's fair enough that citizenship is withheld because it shows a lack of commitment to the country. Stay a permanent resident instead. It's pretty hard to vote and serve on a jury when you don't know what the people are saying. A citizen has certain rights and responsibilities.

However, I can see the hypocrisy of that in Australia. No one ever bothered to learn Aboriginal languages when emigrating there. Some countries have several official languages, so if you argue that you should use the one which is most dominant in your geographical area, then maybe that's what the Indian man is doing.

I don't want a country to be too politically correct, so that you can't even ask a citizen to attempt to communicate with the local language.
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While I was out



Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]If we draw parallels with the situation here in the UAE, few people actually bother to learn Arabic. Partly that is because of the transient nature of the population; perhaps it's sheer laziness as well because English suffices in most situations.

Got to agree with the bolded statements, I assume the majority of people are in the UAE/ME for a number of years at most. Mr. Chapti wants to become a citizen, though, which implies he wants to become British with a British passport. Surely trying to get A1 on the CEFR is not too onerous for such an honour.

I live in the Middle East and haven't learnt more than a few words of Arabic, to my embarrassment. In my rather poor defence anytime I go shopping the cashiers tell me the price in English & serve me in English. I�m sure the experience would be much better if I did speak more than some broken sentences.

I try to learn a few words a day from my Arabic colleagues but they enjoy showing off their English language skills. I�m also very busy with MA studies and a new baby, but it is something in the back of my mind, learn the language of the country you are in and I intend to do so when I have more free time. My point is, I will not be expecting to settle down here and get citizenship with all the benefits that equates to, medical care & pension, high salary equivalent to the natives, for example. I am a transient here.

Artemisia said
Quote:
I lived in Germany long enough to realise that it wouldn't have mattered how long I was there or how good a grasp of language I had, I'd never have been able to become fully German, regardless of whether I became an official citizen or not.


He won�t be English, but he will be British if he gets a passport. Doesn�t matter if he�s not fully English, he�ll be entitled to protection under the law and will be entitled to the same benefits as other British people.

An argument could be made that people over a certain age don't have to learn English (in the UK) if they are going to be supported by the family and not have to work. That age could be 60+ perhaps. But, if he is going to have a job and wants to pay tax, perhaps it should be a requirement. Unless he doesn't want to talk to native British people or work and in that case I would ask him why he doesn't stay in India?

Anyway, if they�ve been married 36 years and she�s been in England for the last 6+ years, what�s he been doing? It�s not like he didn�t know she was in England surely? I would say it�s a question of sheer laziness on his part and her taking advantage of the generosity of the law of the land, paying for someone who isn�t a citizen and possibly not even in the country to fight a court case. What�s next, he�s too old to pay tax or wait for a bus, maybe he should get a taxpayer funded limousine from the airport to her house and a translator everytime he wants to go to the local swimming baths.
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eurobound



Joined: 04 Apr 2011
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Does learning the native language make one a better citi Reply with quote

[quote="nomad soul"] Can you ever make a valid contribution to society, to make friends, to be a part of the national debate, if you cannot articulate your opinions in the language of the land?quote]

No, you can't. But that's not really the point. The point is that the people who choose not to learn the language choose not to because they have no desire to make a valid contribution to society, nor to make friends outside of their tight knit group, nor to be a part of any sort of national debate.

Therefore, we have this policy that allows us to identify what category each person falls into. It should be applied, and applied vigorously.

The couple in question have a choice; either he learns English and joins her in England, or he doesn't and she leaves the country to return to live with him.

Learning the native language makes one a better citizen. I don't see how this could ever be disputed.
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Insubordination:
Quote:
Stay a permanent resident instead. It's pretty hard to vote and serve on a jury when you don't know what the people are saying. A citizen has certain rights and responsibilities.

Becoming a citizen is a complex issue because of those rights and responsibilities but it doesn't sound as though this Indian man has the option of being a long-term resident. I can't access the link on the original article and am not sure if he wants to become a citizen or just remain in Britain.

My earlier post was really addressing Nomad Soul's second question:
Quote:
Can you ever be anything but a guest in the country you live in if you do not speak the language?
You might end up feeling like a guest anyway, as possibly generations of Turks do in Germany, depending on which country we're talking about. It's obviously still highly beneficial to have the language and at least a step in the right direction towards integration.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Clarification: I'm not the author of the article and therefore, can't lay claim to the questions presented.)

Although those (legal) immigrants who, for whatever reason, don't learn or attempt to learn the language aren't deemed as full participants in society, they do make vital economic contributions, especially by paying taxes and as purchasers of goods. Additionally, we can assume it's laziness or lack of time, resources, or confidence that keeps some immigrants from taking language lessons, but it may also be a fear of losing one's own cultural identity, particularly for older transplants. It may be a matter of hanging onto the familiar.
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eurobound



Joined: 04 Apr 2011
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
(Clarification: I'm not the author of the article and therefore, can't lay claim to the questions presented.)

Although those (legal) immigrants who, for whatever reason, don't learn or attempt to learn the language aren't deemed as full participants in society, they do make vital economic contributions, especially by paying taxes and as purchasers of goods. Additionally, we can assume it's laziness or lack of time, resources, or confidence that keeps some immigrants from taking language lessons, but it may also be a fear of losing one's own cultural identity, particularly for older transplants. It may be a matter of hanging onto the familiar.


'Mrs Chapti claimed that even though her husband-of 37-years would not learn the language if he was given permission to join her at the home she shares with relatives in Leicester, he would be able to find work in the clothes factory where she works as a machinist.' The Daily Mail.

Hardly vital that this chap comes, is it? No one else around to fill this job and pay the taxes it generates? Or is Mr Chapti flying in to save our flagging economy?

If you are not prepared to lose at least some of your cultural identity, and your desire to hang on to the familiar is greater than your desire to learn the language of your new home, then don't up-route yourself and fly halfway across the world to live in that new country/culture.

Learn the language or don't bother coming.
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