Job Discussion Forums

[chryanvii]

I have left university teaching behind for an office-style job in Shanghai, and I am so sad. I only taught at university for one semester, but I miss everything about it...

The long vacation periods [I didn't get the Summer b/c I took this job -
but my spring festival travel was one of the best periods of my
life]

Cooking and bonding with the students [definitely don't get this if you're
a teacher in the states]

Plenty of free time to play guitar, take photos, whatever

No lousy bosses hanging over your shoulder who don't even acknowledge you, and consider you the scum of the earth

__________

I still keep in touch with some of my former students through qq, and it makes me really miss my teaching lifestyle..they say they loved me and miss me very much...I don't think these people in the office give two rat's $%^&'s about me.

I feel like I have made a mistake in taking an office job and not teaching again ... as a foreign "face", I just sit at the desk all day long and do my own things, while I have someone who tells me I have to try to hide it from the boss and pretend to "look busy" while he's there. It blows!

That in addition to the fact that nobody ever talks to me because they are always so busy.

No vacation time for a year? And then only 10 days? What was I thinking? Only one hour for lunch? you can't leave the office during work hours? They tell me at 2:30 in the afternoon on a Friday that I have a meeting over my weekend?
_________________

...I was concerned that if I didn't start using my degree somehow once again in a standard office job, that I could never get employed again back in the states as a designer, if I decided one day to go home [I'm not sure yet - maybe after this deal, I WILL go home - it's just like being in America, with the exception of the fact that everyone is speaking chinese].

I have only three months of design experienced racked up, and have heard that it's easy as a foreigner to get employed here in Shanghai. This was why I decided to make this move. I need the experience, and Shanghai just might be the place where I can get that.
_______________

...But the lifestyle of a "regular desk job in china just feels horrible after leaving ESL behind.

Please give me your feelings about this. I don't care about pay. Jobs that pay better tend to suck much more. Have I made a good decision about avoiding the ESL "rut" even though life is very fun on the inside?

My feeling is that if you teach ESL for too long, that it might look bad on your resume if you want to ever consider using your non-ESL related degree again [particularly outside china]. ESL is either for the young ones right out of college [lucky tikes] or the older ones. But for those who are in their mid 30s looking to still find their "niche" in life...it could be a disaster if it goes on for too long.

Please give me your honest opinions. I really want to go back to University ESL and do it while I'm still a little young. But...I also feel that I should consider my future, my design degree, and the possibility that the economy might change for the better in the near future [5 years].
___________

Ming bai ma?

[Zero]

[Ariadne]

Yes, for me, teaching at a university in China is my dream job. I really do love it. But... I'm older so I don't have to worry about how this will affect my career. I don't have to worry about babies or retirement benefits. I have a husband, a house, and good insurance to go home to. I feel very lucky to be able to enjoy the delights of university teaching without the downsides.

I agree with the previous poster that long term uni work in China is not a great idea for people in mid-career. However, I certainly can appreciate that a university job is a heck of a lot more fun, and in many respects more rewarding, than working 40-50 hour weeks in an office.

.

[Lobster]

I agree that EFL teaching in China is best suited to those young people looking for short-term experience and adventure and the older set who aren't worried about building a career back home. What you're experiencing is the daily reality of the working life you can expect here or at home. It stinks on both sides of the pond.

RED

[haller_79]

[chryanvii]

But I pose this question: University teaching might look bad if one is concerned about his future back at home. But...what about Mill teaching?

Let's look at it this way:

you were working full time, so it didn't look like you were just nin-com-pooping around for several years.

you were using communication skills, as well as leadership skills

you were developing your own curriculum, two social clubs at least twice a week

you are teaching business classes too, so this could be a ticket into some type of corporate training...+ keeping your business knowledge in tact
______________

[Miajiayou]

No... but I don't have a dream job so much as I have a dream life. That life certainly doesn't involve doing the same job in the same way in the same place for the next 40 years.

I guess I'm lucky in that I know that my non-ESL-related degree is something I don't want to use as anything other than a stepping stone to grad school. So, I don't feel like I'm wasting it or that I will become unemployable in my "real" career.

So, basically, teaching ESL in China is a good fit for this phase of my dream life. I have a good base for travel during my breaks, I meet people from all over the world, I'm entirely self-sufficient, I'm in an exciting place that is changing in really incredible, ugly, hilarious ways. I know there is an expiration date on my China experience, and I doubt I'll move on to another country after this. I'd like to go back home, settle down, teach ESL in a rural area and have a house with a pond and chickens. Then, I'd like to get into the administrative side of things and maybe even the political side of things. My time in China might be pushing some dates back, but it won't ruin my career.

I also feel like I'm learning a lot about teaching. Not just by virtue of being in front of a classroom here; if anything, that is a way to, uh, unlearn things. Rather, it is because the unfamiliarity pushes me to seek out information to explain what is going on behind it all. I feel like I'm learning about all sorts of behavior and learning issues that I might never have encountered so obviously back home, but will make me a better teacher overall.

[dean_a_jones]

I don't think having taught ESL necessarily looks bad when trying to get jobs back home. Obviously, it depends on what kind of work you are looking to do, but what counts is how well you can relate your experiences to the relevant skill set that the job requires. Degrees are often highly overrated, and people with them sometimes assume that having obtained a degree entitles them to step into jobs. Now this may be the case with some professions (doctors, lawyers etc.) but for things like business, having studied for 3 or 4 years and written a few essays often means FA in terms of what you can actually do. Teaching in China is similar--if you are in your mid-20s and decide to spend a few years here for whatever reason, it is what you have to say about that when asked that really counts.

Although increasingly popular, I don't think that living and teaching in China is something the average person in the US or the UK (for example) has done. If you can suggest that the experience has enhanced you as a human being, then great. Having done plenty of job interviewing and hiring, it is amazing how unsuccessful some people are at relating their lives and talents to a prospective job.

Obviously it is also helpful if you can show progression, development and positions of responsibility. Those kinds of things are available in roles here, both at universities and language mills.

I will concede that if it seems like you have been in China for a 5 or 6 year 'teaching holiday' during which your main focus was likely on student's bodies rather than the student body, this will probably come across on paper and in what you say. But I am not so negative as to think that the ESL world is a black hole which teachers struggle to extract themselves from.

One further point is that I am not a qualified teacher in my home country, and I am not sure what effect teaching abroad for a significant period of time would have on a teaching career upon returning home. My guess would be that it depends very much on where and what you were teaching in China--but it is a guess.

[Zero]

How will you save for retirement/other future needs, if you are teaching ESL in a university in China?

[Silent Shadow]

[Lobster]

Perhaps you could consider teaching at one of the universities of art and design, or even teach some design courses in English. This could give you a bit of both things you desire, and it wouldn't look bad on your resume either.

The retirement and security issue is more pressing for some than others. As some FTs get older and take on more personal responsibilities, they start to look at positions which are more demanding but offer more money. Fewer younger people are concerned about it, although perhaps they should be, as investing for retirement is best done when you're young. This issue is closely tied to a person's individual financial position.

RED

[Non Sequitur]

Without wanting to hijack the thread OP, what about sticking to this semi office job for 12 months and then getting back into teaching in China through management in a chain.
I know it's not uni teaching with all its joys and contacts, but it does leverage your experience. Teaching and commercial experience in China only looks good on a Resume for a China job. Back home it's at best a yawn, at worst a waste of time.
I'm still in regular contact with students I met in my first year in 2004. They email me when they meet Mr or Miss right (or break up with same), get married, put a deposit down on an apartment. Great memories but I know I can't do it for a lifetime.

[chryanvii]

[Zero]

You've mentioned both design jobs and corporate training. You also haven't said what your background is, pre-China.

But here is the general principle: Like leads to like. Unlike leads to job-search difficulty. Hiring managers like to see that the candidate is a proven quantity in a role as close as possible to the one under consideration.

Career changes are harder than career progression. Time out of the country is always a question mark because it's weird to them and it's hard for them to be sure exactly what you were doing.

If you feel that a design career is your desired future, I'd look for a design job and build up a portfolio.

[igorG]