Job Discussion Forums

rdobbs98 · Joined: 08 Oct 2010 Posts: 236

I am just asking this question as the offers I have been getting range from low to good, but the good offers don't seem enough for a city like Shanghai because rent will take most of the paycheck. I have a military pension, which means my basics are already covered, but also would be bringing my wife and children too.

It seems for the most part I wouldn't be saving much but probably putting out of pocket. I am trying to get the ESL experience needed for the Middle East because I am Muslim, speak and read Arabic and Urdu, and my wife and children are Muslim as well. We want to get to the Middle East at some point.

I can get around the Muslim thing because I am a Caucasian Muslim which makes it easier to get around the Islamophobic thing you run into but my wife and two of my four children are of Pakistani decent.

I am an American and have a MBA, BS Public Administration, TESL Canada, currently finish MA International Affairs, and taught 1 year in a private school, Islamic Studies, and 3 years substitute teacher in a public school.

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

How much salary you need to aim for depends on how much your pension is. What kind of offers have you received so far? What's not good about them? From your perspective these offers might not seem great but you have a big family to support. Most ESLers in China seem to be single or married couples with no children, or couples with one child. For those people the offers you've received are probably just fine. Someone in your situation likely needs to adjust their expectations a bit if they want to work in China.

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

Unless Shanghai is a 'must have' in your offer package I would look elsewhere. You need a very good offer to cover living expenses and have something left over.
That said the accommodation on offer at a uni gig would be 2 bedroom max. Probably a bit on the tight side for your group.
Look for interchangeable situations ie accom provided OR an allowance that is enough so you don't dig into salary to live.
You don't mention WHY you are looking to enter China ESL other than to get some experience before getting into maybe Saudi where salaries are waaay bigger.
If your wife is a native English speaker and the kids are in school there may be earning opps for her.
As for the Islamophobic thing I don't think anyone in China or in ESL generally would be concerned what religion you are and nor should they be.

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

Further thought.
Are you a registered teacher in your home country?

MisterButtkins · Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Posts: 1221

If you are mainly just looking to build your resume before moving to the Middle East you should look outside of Shanghai. It will be easier to find a job and expenses will be much cheaper. Rent outside of first tier cities is less than one third of what it is inside, and most other living expenses are lower as well.

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

What does being Muslim have anything to do with anything? It's only an issue if you yourself make it an issue. "Is China worth it?" was your title, not "Is China worth it if I am a Muslim?"....

roadwalker · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: Ch

If there is no reason that you or your family have to be in Shanghai on a daily or regular basis, I would agree: take a job elsewhere. If there is some reason, then you'd be better off paying the higher rent than making regular commutes from a nearby city with six people. Nearby Jiangsu and Zhejiang provinces have many good cities well-connected to Shanghai if you just want the occasional outing in SH.

You might look into more academic settings based on your resume. Many universities want teachers who can teach business in English for example (usually not at a better salary or not much better) and a low hourly load leaves the possibility of private lessons, translation, and part time side work (often through the school itself). As alluded to before, if you are state-licensed to teach, you can make a much better salary at a true international school.

China is full of South Asians doing business and teaching English among other things. Not chalk-full, mind you. But your family won't stick out any more than if you were all Caucasian-looking. And there is discrimination against Muslims but most of that is confined to the Uighur people. People will stare at your family but mainly because you look different than they do, as you will see when you are by yourself. (In the largest cities you will scarcely get a second glance.)

With a large family it's certainly a lot more complicated. Good luck however you decide.

Ariadne · Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 960

Wow, moving a family with 4 kids to China! That will take some doing, and a whole lot of cash for the plane tickets just to start. What about school for the kids? Home schooling? Have you checked into international schools that might give free tuition for kids of teachers? At least your kids would have each other to play with, Chinese kids don't have much available down time.

Why do you want to do this? The logistics are mindboggling. Seems to me that taking whatever teaching jobs you can get in the US would be as good or better than China experience for getting jobs in the Middle East. Are you certain that future employers in the ME would value China experience? If you are willing to relocate to China, then maybe relocating within the US would be a better solution.

I've carted kids across the ocean and it's a challenge, that's for sure, even when the expenses are paid by the military. You would have to work here for several years to come out even, and even then...

So, why China?

.

rdobbs98 · Joined: 08 Oct 2010 Posts: 236

First I looked towards China because it seemed to be one of the Asian countries that provided a background in ESL for the Middle East. I talked with a recruiter in the Middle East and they said get experience in Asia and then come here, otherwise you can only get in the Middle East with a bad recruiter and have a bad experience.

Muslim thing was only mentioned because it is an issue throughout the world but like I said for me being white, no one knows if I don't say anything. Ironically when interviewed by the Chinese so far they don't even blink at it. So there seems not to be a big deal.

That is why I put the title as I did so I can hear the sound advice you all have and believe me it really helps to here from those who did it or are in China. I and my wife also want our children to grow up with world experience because that is the wave of globalization that is occurring now. China also seems a good option for someone with an MBA from the West.

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

I taught with an American couple in 2005 who secured jobs in SA after a year in China.
Interestingly the contact came through his US military connections.
Single people are not that popular as teachers in ME as they are seen as potentially corrupting of the local youth.
A couple is much more acceptable.
The consensus of comments seems to be look outside SH for a do-able cost benefit situation.
Your children and wife for that matter should be prepared to really immerse themselves in local schools.
Oddly you will get less latitude for religious/race-based garb, or practice/appearance in China's state school system and life generally, than you will get in the West.

teachingld2004 · Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 389

Why don't you go to Korea? You can work for an international school, and you will make more money. (at least I think so)
And I am sure you can go to the middle east. I have had friends get jobs ther with out too much trouble\

Lobster · Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:46 am Post subject:

I think you could certainly go straight to the ME without coming to China first.

RED

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

"I talked with a recruiter in the Middle East and they said get experience in Asia and then come here, otherwise you can only get in the Middle East with a bad recruiter and have a bad experience". - OP

Ariadne · Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 960

One recruiter... might be absolutely right, and then again, maybe not. Talk to some other recruiters, make some applications, see what happens. Have you been to the ME forums? Have you checked with folks who are there?

Lobster · Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:00 am Post subject:

Agreed, why just take some recruiter's word for it? You could make direct contact with an established school or a bunch of different recruiters. Your qualifications may make you more desirable than China experience. There are so many countries there, and your chances of getting burned are probably no higher than over here.

RED