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Sashadroogie

"Don't eat with your mouth open!"

We've probably all been admonished like this by our mummies at some point in our lives, but how many of us have considered the structure of this phrase? As a student plaintively cried, "isn't there a rule about adjectives before verbs!? Why not 'open mouth', dearest teacher?"

Anybody know the answer?

johnslat · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject:

Dear Sasha,

Hmm - maybe because it's really, really hard to eat with a closed mouth? Very Happy

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject:

Dear Johnslat

This is a serious matter! Grrr tsk tsk! And the question remains unanswered...

Sasha

johnslat · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject:

Dear Sasha,

Would you consider it impolite if I answered your question with my mouth open? Very Happy

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject:

Dear Johnslat

Yes! Evil or Very Mad

Hic! 'Leave me alone!'

'Keep your trap shut!' is another phrase that needs to be explained... ho hum...

johnslat · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject:

Dear Sahsa,

Don't you mean, "Keep your shut trap?" Very Happy

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject:

Dear Johnslat

"You have me gone completely half-mad!" As the great Flann O'Brien would have it said.

Sasha

johnslat · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:38 pm Post subject:

Dear Sasha,

Have another vodka - go ALL the way Very Happy

But drink with your open mouth open.

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject:

Dear Johnslat

One of my rare moments of lucidity leading to a valid question, and you torment me by reminding me that I have drunk the house dry!

You'll have to excuse me for a bit, while I nip down to the vodka kiosk that also remains open...

Sasha

HLJHLJ · Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 1218 Location: Ecuador

There are exceptions to the rule, but in this case isn't it a participle rather than an adjective?

johnslat · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject:

Dear Sasha,

For goodness sake, go to the open kiosk - NOT the kiosk open. Very Happy

Regards,
John

johnslat · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:49 pm Post subject:

Dear HLJHLJ,

If you're referring to "closed," yes, it's a past participle used as a "passive adjective."

"Open," however, is simply the adjective, of course.

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:55 pm Post subject:

Hic! Hic! Enough of this banter back-and-forth! I'll get back to you after I get through my case of the holy water and have drunk myself sober again hic...

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Sashadroogie · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:27 am Post subject:

Yes, thank you, I know that and you know that. I'm sure the student in question knows that too, but made a mistake with metalanguage in L2, confusing nouns and verbs. Though her point was still clear.

Yet, clear as it is, the 'mouth open' question is still being sidestepped by almost all. Why is this 'open' after the noun, and not before it?