Job Discussion Forums

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

How long do you think one needs to be in a country before that experience is really useful in an EFL context?

How long would one have to spend in a country to offer credible advice to newbies who would like to live and teach in that country?

I think one contract period (usually) is required before one really knows enough about living and working in a country to give advice to others.

For example, I was sent to Moscow for a three-month project once. I was living and working in the city, BUT my accomodation and paperwork and contracts and etc were all arranged by the university that sent me. Three months is an extended visit, but I was never responsible for all the details of daily living. Neither would I presume to say that I know much about Russian culture based on three months of exposure.

Another typical scenario is teachers who lived for a few months and worked (usually with just a few private students) while on student programmes arranged by their universities. I don't think this resembles real living/working conditions to the degree that would allow them to realistically advise others on the country or region.

What do you think?

johnslat · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject:

Dear spiral78,

My initial reaction to your question is that I think you may have made it difficult to choose one answer for what is a double-pronged question.

For example, while I might want to say that 6 months is OK for number 1, I'd hesitate to say that it's also OK for number 2.

Regards,
John

GuestBob · Joined: 18 Jun 2011 Posts: 270

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

1. A resume will always have value if work experience is on it. I'd say if the work experience was less than a month, mention it in a cover letter, but keep it off the resume. Depends on what type of work experience, too!

2. As for being "extensive enough" to offer advice to would-be teachers, I'd say that 3 months is sufficient, but it depends again on what that experience is, and what the would-be teachers are looking for. Even 1 month could be enough depending on what advice is being solicited.

This should really be 2 surveys, not 1, and a bit more clarification is needed, as I have indicated. One can assume that "time spent" means "time spent teaching full-time", but that's not made clear, either.

johnslat · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject:

Another problem I've noticed is that some posters seem to think that their experience is valid for everyone else.

e.g. Don't ever go to this country. You'll hate it; it's a really terrible place.

or the opposite

e.g. You'll never regret coming here. It's the best place in the world.

For those posters, I suspect that they could spend many years in a country but I believe their "advice" might often be misleading.

So, of course, it's again a case of reading posts with a large supply of salt handy.

Regards,
John

hollysuel · Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 225 Location: Connecticut, USA

The longer I've stayed in a country, the better a teacher I was. I'm not sure you can really put a number on it as it depends on each person. Say, for example, a person has studied Spanish since middle school, majors in Spanish at university and then heads to Mexico--he/she would be more effective from the beginning than a person like myself who goes to a country with very little knowledge of the language/culture.

kazpat · Joined: 04 Jul 2010 Posts: 140 Location: Kazakhstan

My first three to six months in Kazakhstan were very simple and pain free in that I had my then girlfriend and now wife and her extended family helping me as well as a great consultant attached to the school who is a local "fixer" of all things. I feel that any advice I could have given to the potential teacher in KZ would have been useless unless he or she shared my same support system.

As the training wheels came off and I started doing more and more things myself such as banking or dealing with the local government (tax payer ID, migration police, ZAGS etc.) I was better positioned to give advice. It took me about a year to experience allot of things here and learn from mistakes to the point I could share anything of real value. So I vote for about a year.

However, I have met teachers who get transported from home to school and back again, eat in company cafeterias and who buy all food from company canteens located on private compounds. In two years they have never really interacted with locals. I guess it is like a soldier spending a year at Bahgram and eating Burger King or spending a year at a FOB in the Korengal Valley. Both soldiers have spent a year in Afghanistan but with vastly different views of the country. I try to give as much about the context of my situation to the reader when giving advice and in doing so I hope it allows the reader to determine if it is relevant or even credible.

Zero · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 1402

Don't presume to know what will be "useful" in terms of work experience or life. If I spent two months working in Tibet, and it was eight years ago, and someone asks a question about Tibet, if I think I have anything relevant to say, I will preface it with, "I spent two months in Tibet eight years ago, and here's how it was then." People can decide for themselves whether it's useful. I just play it straight.

Likewise, on a resume or cover lletter, I might list it in some way or another, just because it forms a part, however small, of my work history. Some people have a catch-all section of their resume that they call something like "other experience" or "other activities" -- the same place where they note that they edited their college yearbook. Will an employer find it useful? Who knows; that's their problem. It isn't going to hurt anything by being there, as long as you aren't playing it up too big in an inappropriate context.

If you've only traveled to a particular region, then the resume isn't really a place to note that. At least, in the American format it's not. Since EFL is a job away from your own country, some indication in your cover letter that you are an experienced traveler is not going to hurt. Just put an unobtrusive sentence in your resume that says a love of learning about other countries is one reason you entered EFL, and you have visited regions X, Y and Z. Might not help, but also won't harm.

Generally speaking, just tell the truth, nothing more and nothing less, and you should be fine.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

nomad soul · Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 11454 Location: The real world

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject:

Have to say that it can be dangerously misleading when teachers make all sorts of broad statements based on just a few weeks in whatever country they've just moved to. Read some of the comments on the Russia board - all sorts of wild claims there, from Russian soul, Russia being ABSOLUTELY an Asian country to what works (with room for absolutely nothing else) with Russian students.

Also, teachers who were in a place years ago sometimes forget that their info is out-of-date. Maybe still useful, but as has been said above, the timeline needs to be made explicit for there to be any value in such info.

Conversely, it does happen that a newbie may be better informed on one particular aspect or other, by dint of being a newbie - e.g. applying for visas from outside. But these are usually rare occasions.

Visas in particular are a minefield. I think unless one has actually got whatever one is in question oneself, then the less stated about what the assumed process is the better - in the absence of hard fact. I am sometimes guilty of being in error myself, mea culpa!, as Russian visa regulations are more changeable then the weather, and there are many differing types. Whether for the EU or Japan, common sense should tell us to listen only to those who have successfully applied for a work permit, preferably recently too.

Hic...

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

artemisia · Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 875 Location: the world

I guess it does come down to being clear on the kind of advice and information you're offering. How long ago you lived and worked in a place, for example, matters when you're talking about visas and other relevant legislation and the current job situation.

Issues that concern teaching the nationality/culture itself and living in that culture, however, are unlikely to change that much. To have a good understanding of the language difficuties students are likely to experience and difficulties a teacher may experience in any given country, I'd agree that at least a year in the country seems reasonable.

A good/bad experience teaching for one employer can hugely impact on your impressions of a place. Changing jobs could make all the difference to someone's attitude. Therefore the longer you've been there, the better chance you have of having more balanced information to offer.

ancient_dweller · Joined: 12 Aug 2010 Posts: 415 Location: Woodland Bench

When i moved to Moscow i had to get an apartment, so in the space of a few weeks i was able to give some rudimentary advice on going about doing that. I had also spoken to (only americans) who had chosen to rent without an agency and been robbed. No contract period completed at that point.

Within a few months i'd been to a number of interviews, been to different schools. Again, within a few weeks, I was able to give some advice on that.

OK, so I wasn't a professional with decades of international experience but i found out that it was necessary to use an agency for apartments to lower risk. I followed that advice i'd received from someone/somewhere. Somebody with a few weeks in Moscow might have told me that!

It all depends on the advice people choose to give.