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JohnRambo
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 183
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 Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:34 am Post subject: West Gate Japanese universities |
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I am in the process of applying to the university jobs connected to West Gate. What can anyone tell me about them? I would like to know as much information as possible.
I have an M.A. in TESOL |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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To be honest, I have no idea what you mean by "university jobs related to Westgate". You work for the university itself or you work for Westgate (who farms you out, often illegally, to universities).
An MA in TESOL. Uh, do you also have publications? Teaching experience?
Where are you right now? Do you need visa sponsorship?
Westgate is not known as the most promising of teaching opportunities in Japan. As I wrote, dispatching teachers is often illegal, and it depends on how it's done. Do an Internet search to see more, starting with www.generalunion.org .
If you are trying to pursue a real university job (Westgate is not), then look at the links in the FAQ sticky for more information. |
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JohnRambo
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 183
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
To be honest, I have no idea what you mean by "university jobs related to Westgate". You work for the university itself or you work for Westgate (who farms you out, often illegally, to universities).
An MA in TESOL. Uh, do you also have publications? Teaching experience?
Where are you right now? Do you need visa sponsorship?
Westgate is not known as the most promising of teaching opportunities in Japan. As I wrote, dispatching teachers is often illegal, and it depends on how it's done. Do an Internet search to see more, starting with www.generalunion.org .
If you are trying to pursue a real university job (Westgate is not), then look at the links in the FAQ sticky for more information. |
I do have teaching experience in South Korea at private institutions. I taught English there. I have no publications. I will need visa sponsorship. I have no time for illegal garbage and would let the employer have it, if he is fishy. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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No publications is almost a guarantee of failing the application process for universities here. Work experience outside Japan may be considered inferior to Japanese experience, too (or even ignored as irrelevant). Case by case.
Keep these things in mind. |
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ejc
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Westgate is offering 275,000 though, which is higher than the other contractors I've seen...
So....still fishy? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Irrelevant. What they do illegally and how much they pay are not related. So, they pay more. Perhaps their clients are willing to pay more than other dispatch customers (high schools?). Who can say how much is skimmed off the top?! |
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TTTT
Joined: 29 May 2011
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Take people with negative attitudes on these forums (like Glenksi's) with a grain of salt. Westgate is an excellent way to gain experience working at the university level in Japan. The contracts are short so you can move on if you find their dealings to be too shady. You'll at least get to Japan and have uni-experience on your resume. Where else in Japan can you find uni-level experience when you're applying for a job from outside of Japan? Also, publications are not the be-all end-all in Japan. Who you know and your experience can trump those who have publications. Get the experience with Westgate and then move on from there. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:35 am Post subject: |
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Pardon me, but "negative attitudes"? How can you say that forewarning people about working for illegal employers is negative?
As for WC giving you a "university experience", I would strongly disagree. The only real experience you'll get that is related to university teaching is that your students are in college. That's it. You are not a university teacher if you work for WC, because...well... you work for WC!
Putting WC on a resume and calling it university experience will only get you a laugh from the interview committee if it even gets that far.
Never said publications were the be-all end-all, but they are considered extremely important items by uni review committees. I hope you aren't saying that "experience with Westgate" (and having no publications) will trump someone who has publications! More laughs. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Ditto everything Glenski said. |
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TTTT
Joined: 29 May 2011
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I checked your link and I couldn't find any discussion of anything WG was doing illegally. It therefore seems you are lumping WG into a category with all dispatch companies and categorically telling everyone to stay away. That's a very negative outlook. Working for WG IS teaching experience because it gives you many hours in ACTUAL classrooms working with REAL students. Maybe it's not for you, but a lot of the people posting here could use the experience and exposure to uni-students that you get with WG.
Can you give some specific examples of something WG is doing illegally? The OP asked for specifics about WG.
JohnRambo, don't give up on your application; this forum seems to be full of people trying to keep would-be teachers away from Japan. I'll repeat what I said, get the experience at a place like WG, then move on to a better job from there. A lot of jobs in Japan are about who you know, so get to know some people once you're in Japan. |
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Inflames
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| As for WC giving you a "university experience", I would strongly disagree. The only real experience you'll get that is related to university teaching is that your students are in college. That's it. You are not a university teacher if you work for WC, because...well... you work for WC! |
As someone who has worked for places directly and through a dispatch company (I do both now) I completely agree with this, although (I suspect) not necessarily for the same reasons as Glenski.
At the place where I am dispatched to, the teachers (even the foreign supervisor there, who everyone with a clue knows is clueless) have no idea how the university works. At my direct hire places, we have to fill out forms saying what we're teaching each week (at the beginning of the semester). We have to go to meetings and stay on top of grading (including the "guidelines" for grading). The other dispatched teachers (where I'm also dispatched) have no idea about those things (a fair number of them have trouble with just showing up). Heck, at that school all the classrooms have a ton of AV equipment in a locked cabinet in the classroom, but we're not even allowed to have keys for them. We have to fill out forms to get photocopies done. The list goes on about how much of a joke it is (coincidentally a lot of that is also the reason why I'm not doing it next year).
The teachers get to dip their toes into the water for teaching (we're literally told which pages to teach on which day) but there's no exposure to the other side of working in a uni (which is just as important). |
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TTTT
Joined: 29 May 2011
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your thoughts Inflames. I would argue that, while not ideal, having to overcome situations where you have limited access to equipment and materials would help someone grow as a teacher. You would learn how to conduct lessons without relying on AV and copy machines. With adversity like that comes growth as a teacher. Dealing with 'joke' policies and 'joke' supervisors helps you to learn their importance and will make you appreciate better jobs in the future.
Anyways, it seems likely that you don't work for WG since you have another job in addition to your dispatch work...something that you would not have time for if you worked for WG, nor is it something that they would tolerate.
I'll offer this to the OP: WG hires teachers for both extra-curricular and accredited courses. The extra-curricular courses will typically be smaller classes with more motivated students because the classes are not required. The accredited courses are larger and are required for students in the university. As they are required courses, you are required to do many of the things a 'real' university teacher does: attendance, evaluations, progress reports, etc. All this experience is not to be balked at, even if those who have 'real' direct hire jobs attempt to write your experience off as irrelevant. It's their prerogative, because you'll be competing with them for jobs someday. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| TTTT wrote: |
Thanks for your thoughts Inflames. I would argue that, while not ideal, having to overcome situations where you have limited access to equipment and materials would help someone grow as a teacher. You would learn how to conduct lessons without relying on AV and copy machines. With adversity like that comes growth as a teacher. Dealing with 'joke' policies and 'joke' supervisors helps you to learn their importance and will make you appreciate better jobs in the future.
Anyways, it seems likely that you don't work for WG since you have another job in addition to your dispatch work...something that you would not have time for if you worked for WG, nor is it something that they would tolerate. |
Well, TTTT, a joke's a joke. Except when it's not.
It's people's goals, ambitions and even futures that we, as teachers, deal in, and some organisations realise this fact better than others. When a university decides that it wants to wash its hands of the teachers delivering the learning outcomes, "joke" is probably the most apposite word.
I work directly for a university - not one with a foreign language department, although it is held in high regard for its main focus and post-graduation employment rates are significantly higher than the national average. In short, it is a good school, but I can quite confidently assert that its English department is the least professional and single most disorganised place I've ever worked. However, I don't have to sign for keys to the AV cabinet or fill out forms for photocopies. To suggest that such a thing is a 'learning experience' for the teachers is both condescending and suggests that you do not work in such an environment. If you hire inexperienced teachers with no qualifications, it might be possible to argue for such. but you would have to demonstrate how it would benefit the teachers when they are living and working in the first - real, in Japan - world.
| Quote: |
| I'll offer this to the OP: WG hires teachers for both extra-curricular and accredited courses. The extra-curricular courses will typically be smaller classes with more motivated students because the classes are not required. The accredited courses are larger and are required for students in the university. As they are required courses, you are required to do many of the things a 'real' university teacher does: attendance, evaluations, progress reports, etc. All this experience is not to be balked at, even if those who have 'real' direct hire jobs attempt to write your experience off as irrelevant. It's their prerogative, because you'll be competing with them for jobs someday. |
In my experience, without at least a master's degree in Applied Linguistics or a related field, none of the 'teachers' Westgate dispatches to universities will land a position that will sponsor their visa. Whichever way you wish to twist it, that's the reality.
You wouldn't happen to work for Westgate, would you? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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To use TTTT's words, I am not saying that working for WC (not WG) is "irrelevant".
You also wrote:
| Quote: |
| Working for WG IS teaching experience because it gives you many hours in ACTUAL classrooms working with REAL students. Maybe it's not for you, but a lot of the people posting here could use the experience and exposure to uni-students that you get with WG. |
I also did not say that working for WC does not provide "teaching experience". You said it is university experience that one can put on a resume. Sorry, but it is dispatch work, usually for non-accredited classes.
A "university experience" that one can call such is FT or PT work where you give grades, deal with the administration (not WC) as your boss, and in the case of FT teachers do so much more (entrance exams, private office, attend committee meetings, etc.). With WC you are merely a hired gun intended to do only the tasks that WC gives to you. A PT direct hire has more "university experience" than a WC teacher.
Yes, you can say you had college students when you work for WC, but you cannot say you worked for XYZ University. That's about the extent of what you can put on a resume regarding WC and uni "experience". |
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TTTT
Joined: 29 May 2011
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Well, TTTT, a joke's a joke. Except when it's not.
It's people's goals, ambitions and even futures that we, as teachers, deal in, and some organisations realise this fact better than others. When a university decides that it wants to wash its hands of the teachers delivering the learning outcomes, "joke" is probably the most apposite word. |
The OP said that he has an MA in TESOL. This is in everyone�s best interest, yes?
| Quote: |
I work directly for a university - not one with a foreign language department, although it is held in high regard for its main focus and post-graduation employment rates are significantly higher than the national average. In short, it is a good school, but I can quite confidently assert that its English department is the least professional and single most disorganised place I've ever worked. However, I don't have to sign for keys to the AV cabinet or fill out forms for photocopies. To suggest that such a thing is a 'learning experience' for the teachers is both condescending and suggests that you do not work in such an environment.
If you hire inexperienced teachers with no qualifications, it might be possible to argue for such. but you would have to demonstrate how it would benefit the teachers when they are living and working in the first - real, in Japan - world. |
Yes, having to deal with policies you don't agree with, don't like, or don't see the point of is a part of your growth as a teacher and as a person within an organization, especially in Japan (you do live in Japan, don't you?). If you can't find harmony within your organization, you'll have to learn to work for yourself. Wow, you don't have to sign for keys, good for you. (Now that�s condescending.)
| Quote: |
| In my experience, without at least a master's degree in Applied Linguistics or a related field, none of the 'teachers' Westgate dispatches to universities will land a position that will sponsor their visa. Whichever way you wish to twist it, that's the reality. |
Look, the OP said that he has a MA in TESOL, which is more than enough to get him to the country on a visa with WG�so why speculate here about a subsequent visa for a subsequent job? (By the way, for anyone still reading the above quote is a perfect example of the negativity to which I referred earlier: putting 'teachers' in single quotes to imply that Westgate teachers are somehow of lesser quality simply by the fact that they have chosen to work for WG.) |
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