Job Discussion Forums

[lakers1988]

I was wondering if anyone has taken these TEFL courses and if so which one may be better? Any help would would be appreciated.

Thank You

[mark_in_saigon]

I recently took the TEFL International course in HCMC. You can find some of my recent comments on it in a fairly recent thread started by someone else. I will eventually create a longer post on the subject, as I think it is very important to people who have not decided what course to take. I will try to summarize what I know, honestly, and also point out my speculation and second hand information.

I cannot comment at all on the Bridge TEFL, I know nothing about that one.

I THINK the CELTA from anywhere is the best program for actually improving your knowledge. I KNOW that the ILA people in HCMC can be very rude and uppity, but still, they MAY have a good program, not sure about that. I KNOW that Apollo in HCMC seems more respectful. Not sure about their program either, again, any CELTA will likely get a bit more respect than the TEFL I or the Bridge, and probably should get A LOT more. You can achieve some real learning in the TEFL I course, but it can be DESPITE the difficulties and frustrations that are part of the program, which (in my opinion) could and should be eliminated by some normal, proper management. I am surprised the certification gets as much respect as it does, compared to the CELTA. Employers look at the paper, that is all they need, they don't seem to care about the details, they move on to your other qualifications and overall presentation then.
I THINK that any real TESOL/TEFL course that is not a scam is sufficient to get you a job, assuming you make a good overall presentation in person and on paper. That is my experience. There are scam courses out there also, so do not get into one of those. Any course from ATI I would look over very closely before committing to, they may be real in some places, they may be scams in other places, I don't think it is worth the risk. Their communications seem the least professional of the lot, and there is some scamming going on with some providers using that name.

On the TEFL International, which I took, here is my short summary.

Staff was pleasant and fairly competent, mostly. Course administrator was WAY out of her depth, and not around most of the time, delegating most of her work to a nice girl who barely understood English. This lack of professional oversight was probably the biggest problem. It would not be that hard for them to get this location back on track, but they did not show the awareness or desire to execute. I know some of the students sent in comments reflecting this, and the feedback was dismissive or nonexistent.

Most of the teaching was by Asians, not Westerners.

Western teachers (about 30% of your instruction) were Brits (nothing against the Brits). Considering that the majority of the students are Americans, it would seem that the makeup of instructors could be just a bit more tilted towards our needs. The westerners were okay, but as they were not the major part of the focus, they did not control the program. I guess my biggest complaint is no one controlled the program. The advertisement for them brags EXTERNALLY MODERATED. I think that is correct, and the organization does not realize the irony in their statement. Because it is externally moderated, it essentially is NOT moderated, and the program clearly reflects that fact. It seems they will accept any native speaker with a pulse, and if you get some clown in your course, they will let him/her disrupt the program terribly. It happened in ours, mercifully our clown disappeared, but not til the class was about 2/3's over. The honest teacher I spoke with admitted that it was a huge problem, but it was not their decision as to how to manage it. Again, external moderation equaled no moderation.

If you are shaky on your skills, and want to be sure to pass, this is the course for you. If you do not want to put up with the rudeness of some of the other providers, this may also be the course for you.

In my opinion, there is the need for a provider in the middle range, better than this one, but without the uppityness of ILA. One where people without advanced language skills can likely pass, but where they will learn as much as they can, and the program will be properly managed to assist that. If Bridge is that course, it would be great. Again, I know nothing about those people. If I feel the need to increase my skills, I may go sit thru the CELTA, but it would be Apollo, I would not do the ILA unless they were the only provider on earth. Their program content may be great, but the rudeness they displayed to me in just negotiating to take the program was way over the edge.

[Irish Lad]

First, I have very little knowledge of Bridge TEFL, and none of it is first hand. Second, my knowledge of TEFL International does not come from personal experience with one of their courses. However, I have known several people who took a TI course, and not one of them was happy about the choice. Comments were similar to some of those made by mark_in_saigon. I'm not sure how much this kind of second-hand information is worth, but you can decide just how much weight to give it.

Best,
IL

[toiyeuthitmeo]

Guess it can't be said enough times, but get the CELTA, and if you have the luxury of time and money, do the YL extension immediately after, and you've got a good head start on more desirable jobs and wage demands. And BEWARE any on-line TEFL course. Shunned by most serious schools.

[lakers1988]

I am a recent college graduate and I double majored in Criminal Justice and Sociology. I currently am a Case Manager for people on parole. I have not taken an English class in a couple of years. I do want to be a good teacher I just am not sure if I could pass the CELTA that is why I am leaning towards TI. But then yet again it seems as though they are just money driven. My question is that if I put a lot of effort into TI will I still get some positives out of it and will I still be able to have a decent amount of job prospects.
I really appreciate the feedback it is really helpful.

[mark_in_saigon]

Having not taken the CELTA, I cannot say how much better it is. I think it is pretty obvious it must be better than the TEFL I course in HCMC. You should take the test to show if you are qualified for the CELTA, I know Apollo links you over to one, I imagine ILA does also. Whether or not they will accept marginal students, I don't know. TEFL I would accept any native speaker, and pass him one way or the other. I think their pass rate is in the very high 90's, and the failures are the people who quit coming. You can learn some things in the TEFL I course, but you could learn a lot more if they would manage their process more professionally. Letting in just anyone is really a mistake, it really devalues the program if they let in some total clown, as they did in my class. Maybe you will have better luck in yours, maybe worse. Honestly, I did not find their program to be of great value, the things I learned I could have learned in a lot less time than a month, mostly it was just trying to follow the step by step details of their process, which eventually we learned even they did not follow, but they acted like it was a big deal (at first). In reality, most of what you are doing in your subsequent work here is adapting to whatever the crazy situation is, their process does not change that.

I think they are ALL money driven, it is just some of them see the linkage between doing a good job and long term viability, and others do not. Honestly, over here, it may not matter. It may be a better long term plan to give out a certification that anyone can pass, maybe there is more profit in serving the masses than in doing a first class job.

I think the main thing for you or anyone is to just have the piece of paper. The VN hiring managers do not devalue the TEFL I one as much as they should, to be honest. They just look at their needs, your overall presentation, and make their decisions. If you are serious about English and teaching here, any one month program is not going to be the main pillar of your skills. You can sit thru the CELTA and get humiliated, you can sit thru TEFL I and get frustrated with the unprofessionalism of the program, you can worry about failing one, you can wonder if you are learning anything of value in the other. I think each individual should check the providers out and decide which distasteful scenario tastes better to him.


My best advice to anyone who has advanced English skills would be to look very closely at Apollo and compare how they seemed to handle your detailed inquiries compared to the other guys. My experience was that they had the most businesslike and respectful process, but they did not have a class when I had time to do it, so I did not use their service. Dabbling around with job search now, I see that the doors I knock on are plenty open for me regardless, again, your overall presentation is probably the key.

[haller_79]

I find it interesting when people with no teaching background proclaim to want to be good teachers, then inquire about TESL courses and moving to Vietnam. This is not a dig, I just think the two elements are contradictory. This is because I do not think you can become a good teacher if you go to Vietnam, I think you can be a good teacher before you go to Vietnam, and hence a good teacher in Vietnam after that. These are the reasons why I don't think you can learn to become a good teacher in Vietnam:

1) New teachers learn from other good teachers with experience, from teacher development programs and the like - in Vietnam it's an every man for himslef environment and most schools (that the foreigner will deal with) are not collegial - they are businesses run for profit.

2) No school is going to bother with teacher development for the foreign teacher - it's assumed (probably quite rightly) that we're not going to stick around.

3) Your role is seen more as entertainer than educator, and all advice and assistance from VN staff will be toward encouraging you to entertain and not teach - face paint, scary masks etc are always available, good books and sound advice are not.

4) You can't leanr to build relationships or good communication and teaching skills with students who pass in and out of the school like people through a subway turnstile. Especially when the age range suddenly jumps from little kids still learning their native language to adults near or around the same age as you - all on the same day.

5) English teaching in Vietnam is transitory, people come and go. Some are backpackers, some are 'real' teachers who've done the job for years in their native country, but both are there for similar reasons - an adventure. Even if the real teacher could assist you, there's no reason for them to do so because they are their for an adventure - perhaps if you were both working at a school in your native country things would be different.

6) The only time you will know whether or not you're doing a good job is when the students either complain or don't complain on their feedback forms.

There are other reasons but the above are the first that spring to mind. If anyone begs to differ then I'm all ears (or eyes in this case).

[mark_in_saigon]

[haller_79]

[lakers1988]

I guess it does not really matter to teaching english but I do have experience teaching different classes to youth offenders on parole. But I just wanted to say I really appreciate the feedback I get from these forums they are really helpful.

Thank You

[generalgiap]

TEFL International delivers the bridge Tefl, same organisation. TI has about 5 0r 6 different websites with different names for the TEFL certificate. I will let the readers decide why an organisation has different websites for the same course with different names.